WEBVTT 00:00:21.488 --> 00:00:23.030 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Getting in right now. 00:00:23.030 --> 00:00:25.640 align:middle line:84% We're so happy at AccessComputing 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.310 align:middle line:84% to be hosting this webinar today and to have 00:00:28.310 --> 00:00:30.660 align:middle line:90% our panelists with us. 00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:33.830 align:middle line:84% For those of you who I don't know, my name's Brianna Blaser. 00:00:33.830 --> 00:00:35.990 align:middle line:84% I'm the Associate Director for AccessComputing. 00:00:35.990 --> 00:00:39.920 align:middle line:84% And we work to increase the participation of people 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.160 align:middle line:84% with disabilities in computing education and careers. 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:47.480 align:middle line:84% So we're always happy to talk with our community about ways 00:00:47.480 --> 00:00:48.800 align:middle line:90% that we can do this. 00:00:48.800 --> 00:00:52.580 align:middle line:84% And I saw a similar presentation to this at the Tapia 00:00:52.580 --> 00:00:56.690 align:middle line:84% celebration earlier this fall, and I reached out afterwards 00:00:56.690 --> 00:00:58.430 align:middle line:84% and said, I'd really love to have you all 00:00:58.430 --> 00:00:59.900 align:middle line:84% do this webinar for our community 00:00:59.900 --> 00:01:02.690 align:middle line:84% because I think this is a really important conversation 00:01:02.690 --> 00:01:04.010 align:middle line:90% and there's a lot to be said. 00:01:04.010 --> 00:01:08.120 align:middle line:84% So if you haven't and want them, you 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:09.988 align:middle line:84% can turn on the automatic captions 00:01:09.988 --> 00:01:11.030 align:middle line:90% which I have going today. 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:13.072 align:middle line:84% Should be able to go to the bottom of your screen 00:01:13.072 --> 00:01:15.290 align:middle line:90% and see Captions. 00:01:15.290 --> 00:01:18.225 align:middle line:84% And then without further ado, I'm 00:01:18.225 --> 00:01:19.850 align:middle line:84% going to turn it over to our panelists. 00:01:19.850 --> 00:01:21.740 align:middle line:84% So today we have joining us Adrienne Decker 00:01:21.740 --> 00:01:24.830 align:middle line:84% from the University of Buffalo, Andrew Begel from Carnegie 00:01:24.830 --> 00:01:27.950 align:middle line:84% Mellon, and Kurt Eiselt from University 00:01:27.950 --> 00:01:29.060 align:middle line:90% of California, Davis. 00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:31.060 align:middle line:84% And they're going to talk to us about supporting 00:01:31.060 --> 00:01:33.020 align:middle line:84% neurodivergent students in classrooms 00:01:33.020 --> 00:01:35.340 align:middle line:90% and into the workplace. 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:36.330 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:01:36.330 --> 00:01:37.590 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: All right. 00:01:37.590 --> 00:01:39.270 align:middle line:90% Thanks so much, Brianna. 00:01:39.270 --> 00:01:40.210 align:middle line:90% So hi, everybody. 00:01:40.210 --> 00:01:41.970 align:middle line:90% Just going to-- 00:01:41.970 --> 00:01:46.680 align:middle line:90% I think we are four-- 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.860 align:middle line:84% actually, three on the call and one by recording people 00:01:49.860 --> 00:01:53.310 align:middle line:84% who are really interested in supporting and helping 00:01:53.310 --> 00:01:55.500 align:middle line:90% neurodivergent students. 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:59.190 align:middle line:84% And it's something we've thought a lot about in the last couple 00:01:59.190 --> 00:02:03.720 align:middle line:84% of years, certainly last 10 to 20 years for some of us, 00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:08.310 align:middle line:84% that we want to ensure that people who are neurodivergent 00:02:08.310 --> 00:02:11.125 align:middle line:84% can be successful in software education, 00:02:11.125 --> 00:02:12.750 align:middle line:84% and make it into the software industry, 00:02:12.750 --> 00:02:16.500 align:middle line:84% and do so without experiencing discrimination. 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:18.810 align:middle line:84% And that's what we're going to try to help all of you 00:02:18.810 --> 00:02:23.070 align:middle line:84% understand today and maybe answer some of your questions 00:02:23.070 --> 00:02:25.980 align:middle line:84% as best we can, and hopefully start a conversation so 00:02:25.980 --> 00:02:29.820 align:middle line:84% that everyone can achieve the same mission 00:02:29.820 --> 00:02:33.220 align:middle line:84% and goals that we're going after today. 00:02:33.220 --> 00:02:36.360 align:middle line:84% So let's start out with a round of introductions first. 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.710 align:middle line:84% So I will let Adrienne go, then Kurt, 00:02:40.710 --> 00:02:43.170 align:middle line:84% and then I will introduce myself at the end. 00:02:43.170 --> 00:02:45.490 align:middle line:84% Adrienne, why don't you introduce yourself? 00:02:45.490 --> 00:02:45.750 align:middle line:90% ADRIENNE DECKER: Hi. 00:02:45.750 --> 00:02:46.440 align:middle line:90% I'm Adrienne Decker. 00:02:46.440 --> 00:02:48.273 align:middle line:84% I'm an Associate Professor in the Department 00:02:48.273 --> 00:02:50.040 align:middle line:90% of Engineering Education. 00:02:50.040 --> 00:02:54.300 align:middle line:84% And my work in scholarship is in computing education. 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:56.730 align:middle line:84% And I'm going to talk a little bit later about a project 00:02:56.730 --> 00:02:58.500 align:middle line:84% that we're doing to help CS faculty 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:02.292 align:middle line:84% with neurodivergent students in their classrooms. 00:03:02.292 --> 00:03:03.000 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: OK. 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:04.140 align:middle line:90% Kurt? 00:03:04.140 --> 00:03:06.540 align:middle line:84% KURT EISELT: I'm Kurt Eiselt. I'm a Professor of Teaching 00:03:06.540 --> 00:03:09.210 align:middle line:84% and Vice Chair in the Computer Science Department 00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:11.610 align:middle line:84% at the University of California, Davis. 00:03:11.610 --> 00:03:15.790 align:middle line:84% And I'll explain how I got involved in this kind of work 00:03:15.790 --> 00:03:19.100 align:middle line:84% when I start talking for the longer period of time. 00:03:19.100 --> 00:03:20.990 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Fantastic. 00:03:20.990 --> 00:03:25.350 align:middle line:84% So our fourth panelist who's not able to be here today 00:03:25.350 --> 00:03:28.790 align:middle line:84% but will be-- who's recorded his presentation 00:03:28.790 --> 00:03:31.280 align:middle line:84% is Omar Shah who's a third-year computer science 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:34.880 align:middle line:84% student at University of Maryland, College Park. 00:03:34.880 --> 00:03:41.070 align:middle line:84% And he will be talking about his own experiences as a student, 00:03:41.070 --> 00:03:42.350 align:middle line:90% as a neurodivergent student. 00:03:42.350 --> 00:03:43.910 align:middle line:84% And then myself, I'm Andrew Begel. 00:03:43.910 --> 00:03:46.610 align:middle line:84% I'm an Associate Professor in the Software 00:03:46.610 --> 00:03:50.120 align:middle line:84% and Societal Systems Department over at Carnegie Mellon 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:51.440 align:middle line:90% University. 00:03:51.440 --> 00:03:54.020 align:middle line:84% I just started here in August after spending 16 years 00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:57.080 align:middle line:84% at Microsoft Research in Seattle. 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.860 align:middle line:84% And I just discovered that Pittsburgh gets really cold, 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:02.120 align:middle line:90% and I did not know that. 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.240 align:middle line:84% Actually, well, I kind of expected it, but it's-- 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:05.780 align:middle line:90% wow. 00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:07.710 align:middle line:90% It's very cold today. 00:04:07.710 --> 00:04:11.240 align:middle line:84% So in any case, I spend all my research 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:15.800 align:middle line:84% focusing on accessibility, HCI, and software engineering, 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.140 align:middle line:84% and trying to help people with disabilities 00:04:18.140 --> 00:04:21.209 align:middle line:84% make it into the software industry and stay there. 00:04:21.209 --> 00:04:23.340 align:middle line:84% So let's talk about what we'll do today. 00:04:23.340 --> 00:04:27.200 align:middle line:84% So we had the introduction, and then we're going to have-- 00:04:27.200 --> 00:04:29.420 align:middle line:84% this follows the format of a panel 00:04:29.420 --> 00:04:33.620 align:middle line:84% we gave at Tapia conference in September in Washington, DC, 00:04:33.620 --> 00:04:35.060 align:middle line:84% where each of us are going to talk 00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:39.737 align:middle line:84% for about five minutes about the particular research 00:04:39.737 --> 00:04:41.570 align:middle line:84% that we've been doing or particular practice 00:04:41.570 --> 00:04:44.750 align:middle line:84% we've been doing to work with neurodivergents. 00:04:44.750 --> 00:04:47.420 align:middle line:90% And then we're going to-- 00:04:47.420 --> 00:04:52.310 align:middle line:84% after that's over, we will go into a Q&A session 00:04:52.310 --> 00:04:55.567 align:middle line:84% where we can receive your questions via chat. 00:04:55.567 --> 00:04:57.650 align:middle line:84% We've also had some questions that were previously 00:04:57.650 --> 00:04:59.480 align:middle line:84% submitted when you registered for the Zoom, 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:04.070 align:middle line:84% and we'll try to answer all those questions as best we can 00:05:04.070 --> 00:05:06.290 align:middle line:90% until the hour's up. 00:05:06.290 --> 00:05:07.700 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:05:07.700 --> 00:05:11.090 align:middle line:84% So let me just introduce the whole concept of divergence 00:05:11.090 --> 00:05:12.120 align:middle line:90% in the first place. 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:14.780 align:middle line:84% So basically, what is neurodiversity? 00:05:14.780 --> 00:05:19.070 align:middle line:84% So neurodiversity really covers a range of natural variations 00:05:19.070 --> 00:05:20.450 align:middle line:90% in human cognition. 00:05:20.450 --> 00:05:22.740 align:middle line:84% Think of it kind of like biodiversity. 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:25.850 align:middle line:84% So every type of cognitive style has their strengths 00:05:25.850 --> 00:05:28.400 align:middle line:84% and their weaknesses, and it's this natural variation 00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:30.170 align:middle line:84% in the human cognition that you see 00:05:30.170 --> 00:05:33.800 align:middle line:84% in the world that helps humankind adapt 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:38.270 align:middle line:84% to different situations in community living. 00:05:38.270 --> 00:05:40.970 align:middle line:84% So there are specializations and generalizations in skill, 00:05:40.970 --> 00:05:42.950 align:middle line:84% capability, character, and strength. 00:05:42.950 --> 00:05:44.960 align:middle line:84% The graphic you're seeing on the page 00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:48.320 align:middle line:84% is from Nancy Doyle who's the head of the Genius 00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:52.820 align:middle line:84% Within group that helps people who have so-called-- who 00:05:52.820 --> 00:05:54.500 align:middle line:90% are neurominorities, basically. 00:05:54.500 --> 00:06:00.390 align:middle line:84% These are all minority neurotypes like dyslexia, ADHD, 00:06:00.390 --> 00:06:03.260 align:middle line:90% autism spectrum condition. 00:06:03.260 --> 00:06:05.360 align:middle line:84% And notice I say condition and not disorder. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.820 align:middle line:84% A lot of these were originally defined 00:06:07.820 --> 00:06:11.595 align:middle line:84% by the medical field in a sense that people 00:06:11.595 --> 00:06:13.970 align:middle line:84% would come to doctors and say, something's wrong with me, 00:06:13.970 --> 00:06:15.428 align:middle line:84% or something's wrong with my child. 00:06:15.428 --> 00:06:18.537 align:middle line:84% Can you figure out what's wrong and fix them? 00:06:18.537 --> 00:06:20.120 align:middle line:84% And the neurodiversity movement really 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:24.305 align:middle line:84% rejects that kind of thought process about people. 00:06:24.305 --> 00:06:25.610 align:middle line:90% These people aren't broken. 00:06:25.610 --> 00:06:28.010 align:middle line:84% They have a lot of skills that can be 00:06:28.010 --> 00:06:29.480 align:middle line:90% brought to bear in great ways. 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.170 align:middle line:84% Like, people who are dyslexic have amazing visual thinking 00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:35.570 align:middle line:90% skills and are super creative. 00:06:35.570 --> 00:06:39.305 align:middle line:84% People with dyspraxia have really good verbal skills 00:06:39.305 --> 00:06:41.400 align:middle line:90% and high amounts of empathy. 00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:43.790 align:middle line:84% People with autism spectrum condition 00:06:43.790 --> 00:06:47.300 align:middle line:84% have really, really, really good sensory processing 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:50.000 align:middle line:90% and really good fine detail-- 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:53.810 align:middle line:84% processing of fine details and amazing memory. 00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:57.080 align:middle line:84% And people who are with ADHD are often incredibly creative, 00:06:57.080 --> 00:07:00.350 align:middle line:84% and do also have the ability to hyperfocus when necessary 00:07:00.350 --> 00:07:03.080 align:middle line:84% where they can get one task done for a very, very 00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:04.500 align:middle line:90% long period of time. 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:07.370 align:middle line:84% Now, these aren't necessarily the skills 00:07:07.370 --> 00:07:09.890 align:middle line:84% that society needs at any given time. 00:07:09.890 --> 00:07:14.060 align:middle line:84% This is why people think of them as differences or minorities. 00:07:14.060 --> 00:07:19.250 align:middle line:84% So you might think of people without dyslexia 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:20.540 align:middle line:90% as having the disability. 00:07:20.540 --> 00:07:23.330 align:middle line:84% Maybe they're the ones who have literary dependence syndrome. 00:07:23.330 --> 00:07:26.690 align:middle line:84% They're the ones who need to actually read something 00:07:26.690 --> 00:07:28.250 align:middle line:90% in order to be able to think. 00:07:28.250 --> 00:07:31.760 align:middle line:84% Or people without ADHD have sedentary 00:07:31.760 --> 00:07:33.260 align:middle line:84% limited concentration disorder where 00:07:33.260 --> 00:07:36.080 align:middle line:84% they have to sit still in order to be able to actually solve 00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:36.740 align:middle line:90% problems. 00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:39.020 align:middle line:84% Or people who are non-autistic, you 00:07:39.020 --> 00:07:41.780 align:middle line:84% consider them to have sensory underwhelming conditions 00:07:41.780 --> 00:07:44.580 align:middle line:84% where their perception lacks acuity, 00:07:44.580 --> 00:07:47.750 align:middle line:84% which leads to mistakes in tasks that 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:49.340 align:middle line:90% require detailed perception. 00:07:49.340 --> 00:07:51.770 align:middle line:84% Those examples come from Nancy Doyle, 00:07:51.770 --> 00:07:53.870 align:middle line:84% and they're really instructive, though, 00:07:53.870 --> 00:07:55.940 align:middle line:84% in really reconsidering exactly what you 00:07:55.940 --> 00:07:57.830 align:middle line:84% think of these kinds of neurominorities, 00:07:57.830 --> 00:08:00.890 align:middle line:84% this kind of neurodiversity in our society, and the value 00:08:00.890 --> 00:08:04.230 align:middle line:84% that everyone can bring to the world. 00:08:04.230 --> 00:08:07.590 align:middle line:84% So neurodiversity itself is pretty widespread. 00:08:07.590 --> 00:08:10.980 align:middle line:84% We know that these days in the last couple 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:14.160 align:middle line:84% years they're showing about 2.3% to 2.5% 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:18.300 align:middle line:84% of children in the United States are diagnosed as autistic. 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:22.500 align:middle line:84% Almost 10% have ADHD, and up to even 15% 00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:26.310 align:middle line:84% of people in the United States are diagnosed with dyslexia. 00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:29.638 align:middle line:84% These numbers do change from country to country. 00:08:29.638 --> 00:08:31.680 align:middle line:84% That's why I give numbers from the United States. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.638 align:middle line:84% There are slightly different numbers in Canada. 00:08:33.638 --> 00:08:36.059 align:middle line:84% A lot of these numbers change over time 00:08:36.059 --> 00:08:38.520 align:middle line:84% based with different kinds of recognition 00:08:38.520 --> 00:08:43.230 align:middle line:84% of the conditions in children, how good the diagnostics are, 00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:44.820 align:middle line:84% and how well the culture actually 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:50.340 align:middle line:84% acknowledges that these kinds of differences deserve a name. 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:53.340 align:middle line:84% Now, the thing that you want to know about neurodiversity 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:55.410 align:middle line:84% is that it does exist on a spectrum. 00:08:55.410 --> 00:08:58.650 align:middle line:84% There's no one type of person with autism 00:08:58.650 --> 00:09:00.150 align:middle line:90% or one type of person with ADHD. 00:09:00.150 --> 00:09:03.210 align:middle line:84% There are all different kinds of skills and differences 00:09:03.210 --> 00:09:06.510 align:middle line:84% in the ways that they think across those people. 00:09:06.510 --> 00:09:08.970 align:middle line:84% And in fact, many people who are neurodivergent 00:09:08.970 --> 00:09:13.440 align:middle line:84% often identify with more than one neurodivergent condition 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:14.550 align:middle line:90% at the same time. 00:09:14.550 --> 00:09:18.480 align:middle line:84% And that intersectionality produces even more kind 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.690 align:middle line:84% of differences in the presentation of these things. 00:09:21.690 --> 00:09:23.710 align:middle line:84% Like, let's say of students in your classroom. 00:09:23.710 --> 00:09:26.220 align:middle line:84% And this is something that you don't outgrow. 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:28.290 align:middle line:84% These are part of the way that your brain works. 00:09:28.290 --> 00:09:30.780 align:middle line:84% And you might develop some strategies 00:09:30.780 --> 00:09:32.850 align:middle line:84% for engaging with other people in the world. 00:09:32.850 --> 00:09:35.160 align:middle line:84% Sometimes if you're having trouble with those things 00:09:35.160 --> 00:09:36.660 align:middle line:84% you might develop coping strategies, 00:09:36.660 --> 00:09:40.180 align:middle line:84% but those are things that will last you your entire lifetime. 00:09:40.180 --> 00:09:46.410 align:middle line:84% So we want to go for each of the four of us 00:09:46.410 --> 00:09:49.830 align:middle line:84% to kind of introduce a different perspective on neurodivergence. 00:09:49.830 --> 00:09:52.200 align:middle line:84% And this one is going to be from Omar Shah, who 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.957 align:middle line:84% I said before is a junior in computer science at University 00:09:54.957 --> 00:09:56.040 align:middle line:90% of Maryland, College Park. 00:09:56.040 --> 00:09:57.630 align:middle line:84% And let's see if this video plays 00:09:57.630 --> 00:09:59.010 align:middle line:90% and you can hear the sound. 00:10:04.136 --> 00:10:04.805 align:middle line:90% [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 00:10:04.805 --> 00:10:05.430 align:middle line:90% OMAR SHAH: Hey. 00:10:05.430 --> 00:10:07.080 align:middle line:90% My name is Omar Shah. 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.180 align:middle line:84% I'm a third-year computer science student 00:10:09.180 --> 00:10:12.000 align:middle line:84% at the University of Maryland in College Park, 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.720 align:middle line:84% and I'm going to give my perspective on being 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.450 align:middle line:90% neurodivergent in college. 00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:24.180 align:middle line:84% So to start with, I'm going to talk a little bit about me, 00:10:24.180 --> 00:10:29.250 align:middle line:84% and then I'm going to discuss some challenges that I faced 00:10:29.250 --> 00:10:31.680 align:middle line:84% in college, and I'm going to suggest 00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:34.890 align:middle line:84% some potential solutions to them. 00:10:34.890 --> 00:10:36.500 align:middle line:90% So first, a little bit about me. 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:39.510 align:middle line:84% I was diagnosed with ADHD at age six. 00:10:39.510 --> 00:10:43.040 align:middle line:84% In addition to attention difficulties, people with ADHD 00:10:43.040 --> 00:10:46.070 align:middle line:84% have challenges with organizing their time and materials, 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:49.610 align:middle line:84% issues with short-term memory, slower information processing 00:10:49.610 --> 00:10:55.740 align:middle line:84% speed, difficulty navigating social situations, and anxiety. 00:10:55.740 --> 00:11:01.190 align:middle line:84% So from elementary to high school, I had accommodations. 00:11:01.190 --> 00:11:03.710 align:middle line:84% Those included preferential seating, 00:11:03.710 --> 00:11:05.930 align:middle line:84% extended time for tests and quizzes, 00:11:05.930 --> 00:11:08.530 align:middle line:84% and assignment deadline extensions. 00:11:08.530 --> 00:11:11.200 align:middle line:84% When I transitioned into college, 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.490 align:middle line:84% I had to take a neuropsychological evaluation 00:11:14.490 --> 00:11:18.390 align:middle line:84% before I could get accommodations, 00:11:18.390 --> 00:11:23.770 align:middle line:90% and the cost of that was $4,000. 00:11:23.770 --> 00:11:27.460 align:middle line:84% So when I went into college, I had all the accommodations 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:31.030 align:middle line:84% I had from elementary to high school plus the ability 00:11:31.030 --> 00:11:34.330 align:middle line:84% to take audio recordings of lectures. 00:11:34.330 --> 00:11:38.410 align:middle line:84% But an important change is that I no longer have a counselor 00:11:38.410 --> 00:11:43.360 align:middle line:84% and I have to navigate college by myself. 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:48.340 align:middle line:84% So now I'm going to discuss some challenges I had in college. 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:49.870 align:middle line:84% To start with, I'm going to go over 00:11:49.870 --> 00:11:51.460 align:middle line:84% some general challenges that come 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:55.090 align:middle line:84% with being a neurodivergent college student. 00:11:55.090 --> 00:11:58.580 align:middle line:84% So using my accommodations has really helped. 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:02.400 align:middle line:84% However, there are challenges to implementing them. 00:12:02.400 --> 00:12:07.320 align:middle line:84% You need to start the process before the semester begins 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.420 align:middle line:84% and contact each professor individually 00:12:09.420 --> 00:12:13.090 align:middle line:84% to discuss an accommodation plan. 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:17.790 align:middle line:84% This requires a lot of proactivity and organization, 00:12:17.790 --> 00:12:21.180 align:middle line:84% which is difficult for people with ADHD. 00:12:21.180 --> 00:12:24.060 align:middle line:84% Another challenge I've had is with networking 00:12:24.060 --> 00:12:26.340 align:middle line:84% with peers because of my difficulty 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:28.020 align:middle line:90% navigating social situations. 00:12:30.940 --> 00:12:34.960 align:middle line:84% I often miss out on key information 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.528 align:middle line:84% that students share with each other. 00:12:37.528 --> 00:12:39.070 align:middle line:84% And one resource that's really helped 00:12:39.070 --> 00:12:43.360 align:middle line:84% me here is the University of Maryland Social Interaction 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.730 align:middle line:84% Group Network for All or SIGNA, which 00:12:45.730 --> 00:12:48.310 align:middle line:84% is run by the Department of Hearing and Speech. 00:12:48.310 --> 00:12:52.060 align:middle line:84% And they teach social skills and self-advocacy, 00:12:52.060 --> 00:12:56.120 align:middle line:84% and the program costs $3,000 per semester. 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:59.260 align:middle line:84% Another challenge I've had is with time management 00:12:59.260 --> 00:13:02.590 align:middle line:84% around different deadlines for different courses. 00:13:02.590 --> 00:13:06.250 align:middle line:84% I've often missed deadlines or forgot to work on homework, 00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:09.270 align:middle line:84% and my grades suffered as a result. 00:13:09.270 --> 00:13:13.620 align:middle line:84% And one resource that's really helped me manage my time better 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:16.530 align:middle line:84% is UMD's SUCCEEDS program, which is 00:13:16.530 --> 00:13:18.600 align:middle line:84% run by the Department of Psychology. 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.640 align:middle line:84% And they teach neurodiverse students 00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:26.500 align:middle line:84% how to manage time and organize better. 00:13:26.500 --> 00:13:32.060 align:middle line:84% And this program costs $3,000 per semester too. 00:13:32.060 --> 00:13:37.340 align:middle line:84% I'm bringing up the cost of all of these, the evaluation 00:13:37.340 --> 00:13:38.930 align:middle line:84% and the different programs to show 00:13:38.930 --> 00:13:44.170 align:middle line:84% that they're not accessible to everyone who might need them. 00:13:46.780 --> 00:13:50.590 align:middle line:84% Now I'm going to talk about an issue that's 00:13:50.590 --> 00:13:53.941 align:middle line:84% almost specific to the computer science major. 00:13:53.941 --> 00:13:55.880 align:middle line:90% The major itself is huge. 00:13:55.880 --> 00:14:00.880 align:middle line:84% It's not uncommon to have 200 to 300 students per class, 00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:03.550 align:middle line:84% and so it's difficult to get one-on-one time with teachers 00:14:03.550 --> 00:14:07.600 align:middle line:84% to discuss accommodations or to get time 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.590 align:middle line:90% with TAs for extra help. 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:14.220 align:middle line:84% So now I'm going to discuss some issues 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:16.710 align:middle line:90% I've had in the classroom. 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:21.030 align:middle line:84% Because I process information slower than other students, 00:14:21.030 --> 00:14:24.150 align:middle line:84% the pace of some class is too fast for me to take notes. 00:14:24.150 --> 00:14:27.960 align:middle line:84% And while some professors do record their lectures or make 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:33.390 align:middle line:84% slides available after class, many professors don't. 00:14:33.390 --> 00:14:40.110 align:middle line:84% And stuff like that is important for people 00:14:40.110 --> 00:14:45.960 align:middle line:84% with limited short-term memory and slower processing speed, 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.250 align:middle line:84% and it helps us go over materials 00:14:50.250 --> 00:14:53.300 align:middle line:90% after the class is over. 00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:56.360 align:middle line:84% Another challenge I've had is that not all professors 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.420 align:middle line:84% use the same course management tools. 00:14:59.420 --> 00:15:03.140 align:middle line:84% So I needed to learn to navigate different systems 00:15:03.140 --> 00:15:08.330 align:middle line:84% and to remember to check in multiple places for information 00:15:08.330 --> 00:15:10.522 align:middle line:90% on assignments and grades. 00:15:10.522 --> 00:15:13.050 align:middle line:84% And so I often missed key information 00:15:13.050 --> 00:15:15.600 align:middle line:84% because it was hosted on a course management tool 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.078 align:middle line:90% that I didn't check. 00:15:18.078 --> 00:15:19.620 align:middle line:84% One thing that could really help here 00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:24.960 align:middle line:84% is if all professors started using common course management 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:29.580 align:middle line:84% systems for posting their course materials to make 00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:34.090 align:middle line:84% those materials easier to keep track of. 00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:39.270 align:middle line:84% So that's my perspective on neurodiversity in college, 00:15:39.270 --> 00:15:41.730 align:middle line:84% and I hope this was informative for everyone. 00:15:41.730 --> 00:15:42.987 align:middle line:90% [END PLAYBACK] 00:15:42.987 --> 00:15:43.820 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Great. 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:44.487 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Omar. 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:49.940 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:15:49.940 --> 00:15:51.570 align:middle line:90% So I'm going to go next. 00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:55.580 align:middle line:84% My section here is called Expanding the Education 00:15:55.580 --> 00:15:57.170 align:middle line:90% to Employment Pipeline. 00:15:57.170 --> 00:15:59.940 align:middle line:84% And I'd like to talk about two specific things. 00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:02.060 align:middle line:84% One of them is a coding camp that I 00:16:02.060 --> 00:16:08.870 align:middle line:84% run with Paige Rodeghero from ARC for Clemson University. 00:16:08.870 --> 00:16:12.117 align:middle line:84% And in our coding camp, we're doing a video game coding 00:16:12.117 --> 00:16:13.700 align:middle line:84% camp, an online video game coding camp 00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:15.500 align:middle line:90% for autistic high school kids. 00:16:15.500 --> 00:16:18.710 align:middle line:84% And originally, we started this three years ago for rising 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:20.575 align:middle line:90% freshman at Clemson University. 00:16:20.575 --> 00:16:21.950 align:middle line:84% There is a spectrum program there 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:28.040 align:middle line:84% that they come for the summer before college 00:16:28.040 --> 00:16:30.260 align:middle line:90% to learn about how to-- 00:16:30.260 --> 00:16:35.180 align:middle line:84% kids who are autistic to acclimate to live away 00:16:35.180 --> 00:16:40.250 align:middle line:84% from home, to get special help in navigating the university 00:16:40.250 --> 00:16:40.970 align:middle line:90% environment. 00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:43.400 align:middle line:84% And also, they had a lot of time free, so we're like, 00:16:43.400 --> 00:16:45.425 align:middle line:84% let's teach them about video game programming 00:16:45.425 --> 00:16:47.300 align:middle line:84% because a lot of them are interested in STEM. 00:16:47.300 --> 00:16:50.330 align:middle line:84% Except in our camp what we do is we devote half the learning 00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:54.470 align:middle line:84% goals to video game programming, but we devote the other half 00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:56.950 align:middle line:90% to communication skills. 00:16:56.950 --> 00:16:59.770 align:middle line:84% And this is especially important for autistic students 00:16:59.770 --> 00:17:01.720 align:middle line:90% who don't have-- 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:07.119 align:middle line:84% who have a lot of difficulty absorbing social rules when 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:08.619 align:middle line:90% working with other people. 00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:11.290 align:middle line:84% They have a lot of difficulty absorbing those rules tacitly 00:17:11.290 --> 00:17:12.890 align:middle line:90% just by watching other people. 00:17:12.890 --> 00:17:16.150 align:middle line:84% And what we tried to do in our camp 00:17:16.150 --> 00:17:20.980 align:middle line:84% was to specifically have them work in teams to build software 00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:24.460 align:middle line:90% games or to build video games. 00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:26.710 align:middle line:84% And these are Pacman style video games, so 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:28.517 align:middle line:90% nothing super kind of crazy. 00:17:28.517 --> 00:17:30.850 align:middle line:84% Especially high school students don't all get computers, 00:17:30.850 --> 00:17:33.495 align:middle line:84% so we give them games that don't stress out 00:17:33.495 --> 00:17:34.870 align:middle line:84% their computer while they're also 00:17:34.870 --> 00:17:36.340 align:middle line:90% running Zoom at the same time. 00:17:36.340 --> 00:17:39.870 align:middle line:84% And what the students would do is 00:17:39.870 --> 00:17:43.270 align:middle line:84% we would teach them do live coding demos with them to teach 00:17:43.270 --> 00:17:45.970 align:middle line:84% them about how to put together games using either MakeCode 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:49.330 align:middle line:84% Arcade or later we're using GoDot Engine, which 00:17:49.330 --> 00:17:51.820 align:middle line:84% is kind of like a baby Unity environment. 00:17:51.820 --> 00:17:56.770 align:middle line:84% And what we found was that if we could teach the students how 00:17:56.770 --> 00:17:59.530 align:middle line:84% to work in teams, either first through think-pair-share type 00:17:59.530 --> 00:18:02.950 align:middle line:84% of programming exercises, and then actually putting them 00:18:02.950 --> 00:18:04.810 align:middle line:90% in teams of two to three kids-- 00:18:04.810 --> 00:18:08.710 align:middle line:84% two to three students at a time, and then teaching them, 00:18:08.710 --> 00:18:11.060 align:middle line:84% how do you meet a new person on your team? 00:18:11.060 --> 00:18:14.500 align:middle line:84% We gave them a script like a scaffold where they interviewed 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:17.145 align:middle line:84% one another about who those people were 00:18:17.145 --> 00:18:18.520 align:middle line:84% and where they come from and what 00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:20.320 align:middle line:84% they're like and what families they have, 00:18:20.320 --> 00:18:22.210 align:middle line:90% and what are their hobbies? 00:18:22.210 --> 00:18:24.520 align:middle line:84% So that way they could get to know the other person. 00:18:24.520 --> 00:18:26.417 align:middle line:84% When they were trying to negotiate their-- 00:18:26.417 --> 00:18:28.000 align:middle line:84% they would have another meeting to try 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.818 align:middle line:84% to negotiate their working styles, 00:18:29.818 --> 00:18:31.360 align:middle line:84% when they like to get their work done 00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:33.068 align:middle line:84% and how they like to get their work done. 00:18:33.068 --> 00:18:35.868 align:middle line:84% We taught them agile development so that they would learn 00:18:35.868 --> 00:18:38.410 align:middle line:84% methodologies about how to have a standard meeting where they 00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:40.570 align:middle line:84% would learn to talk about what they had just done, 00:18:40.570 --> 00:18:42.130 align:middle line:84% what they were planning to do, things 00:18:42.130 --> 00:18:44.200 align:middle line:90% that they had difficulty with. 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:46.990 align:middle line:84% And learn to proactively communicate in, 00:18:46.990 --> 00:18:49.030 align:middle line:84% let's say, a Zoom breakout room to say, 00:18:49.030 --> 00:18:50.680 align:middle line:84% we are working on the program together. 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.000 align:middle line:90% I'm working on this right now. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.120 align:middle line:90% I'm thinking about this. 00:18:53.120 --> 00:18:57.130 align:middle line:84% It turns out think aloud is not a very natural thing 00:18:57.130 --> 00:18:59.170 align:middle line:84% for a lot of people to do, and especially we 00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:01.720 align:middle line:84% found the autistic kids very not used 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.280 align:middle line:90% to that kind of working style. 00:19:03.280 --> 00:19:07.660 align:middle line:84% But it helps a lot when you have only two weeks of camp and only 00:19:07.660 --> 00:19:09.310 align:middle line:84% two hours or three hours in a session 00:19:09.310 --> 00:19:11.893 align:middle line:84% where you need to get the other person on the same page as you 00:19:11.893 --> 00:19:14.320 align:middle line:84% for the entire session in order to work well. 00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:17.440 align:middle line:84% At the end of the camp we taught them how to present their work. 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.330 align:middle line:84% And also not just that, but also how 00:19:19.330 --> 00:19:21.820 align:middle line:84% to give appropriate, constructive feedback 00:19:21.820 --> 00:19:24.040 align:middle line:90% on other people's work. 00:19:24.040 --> 00:19:26.292 align:middle line:84% We taught them about the compliment sandwich 00:19:26.292 --> 00:19:28.750 align:middle line:84% where you give a compliment and then say something critical 00:19:28.750 --> 00:19:31.090 align:middle line:84% or construct-- hopefully constructively, 00:19:31.090 --> 00:19:33.113 align:middle line:84% and then give another compliment because that's 00:19:33.113 --> 00:19:35.530 align:middle line:84% the kind of thing that makes people feel good and actually 00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:37.510 align:middle line:90% want to take your advice. 00:19:37.510 --> 00:19:39.610 align:middle line:84% And learning all those skills, we 00:19:39.610 --> 00:19:42.490 align:middle line:84% found through a study we did of the students 00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:45.813 align:middle line:84% there that they realized they radically 00:19:45.813 --> 00:19:47.980 align:middle line:84% improved or drastically improved their communication 00:19:47.980 --> 00:19:50.230 align:middle line:84% skills with the other students and their self-efficacy 00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:51.670 align:middle line:90% for those communication skills. 00:19:51.670 --> 00:19:55.510 align:middle line:84% But they also realized that-- one of them told us, wow. 00:19:55.510 --> 00:19:57.310 align:middle line:84% I never realized anybody actually cared 00:19:57.310 --> 00:19:59.230 align:middle line:90% about what I had to say. 00:19:59.230 --> 00:20:02.290 align:middle line:84% And here, I realized what I do have to say actually matters, 00:20:02.290 --> 00:20:03.970 align:middle line:90% and it's important. 00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:05.350 align:middle line:90% And she found her voice. 00:20:05.350 --> 00:20:08.230 align:middle line:84% I mean, that's totally kind of amazing. 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:10.690 align:middle line:84% Now beyond that, what we're trying to do 00:20:10.690 --> 00:20:13.060 align:middle line:84% is prepare them for careers in computer science 00:20:13.060 --> 00:20:14.440 align:middle line:90% where everybody works in teams. 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.950 align:middle line:84% And the team aspect of this is really important here 00:20:17.950 --> 00:20:22.870 align:middle line:84% in that when they try to go get jobs, 00:20:22.870 --> 00:20:26.440 align:middle line:84% if they have sufficient social skills-- and by social skills 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:28.210 align:middle line:84% I mean not, do you know how to talk, 00:20:28.210 --> 00:20:30.250 align:middle line:84% but can you work with non-autistic people? 00:20:30.250 --> 00:20:32.262 align:middle line:84% So basically, autistic people-- the trouble 00:20:32.262 --> 00:20:33.970 align:middle line:84% they have in the social area is basically 00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:36.695 align:middle line:84% trying to understand the non-autistic people around them 00:20:36.695 --> 00:20:39.070 align:middle line:84% because they might speak the same language, but they talk 00:20:39.070 --> 00:20:40.150 align:middle line:90% passed you through a lot. 00:20:40.150 --> 00:20:42.670 align:middle line:84% And so Microsoft where I used to work 00:20:42.670 --> 00:20:45.295 align:middle line:90% had an autism hiring program. 00:20:45.295 --> 00:20:48.460 align:middle line:84% Or now it's called the Neurodiversity Hiring Program 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:50.770 align:middle line:84% where they're trying to find an alternate front 00:20:50.770 --> 00:20:54.340 align:middle line:84% door to help autistic people make it past the interview 00:20:54.340 --> 00:20:56.163 align:middle line:84% phase to get hired into the company. 00:20:56.163 --> 00:20:58.330 align:middle line:84% And these are autistic people who are great software 00:20:58.330 --> 00:21:01.870 align:middle line:84% developers, but they have trouble performing 00:21:01.870 --> 00:21:04.390 align:middle line:84% in interviews in a way that impresses people or makes 00:21:04.390 --> 00:21:06.790 align:middle line:84% them feel like they would be a good fit for their team. 00:21:06.790 --> 00:21:09.010 align:middle line:84% And these are situations that it's unfair. 00:21:09.010 --> 00:21:11.740 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's basically these are fantastic coders that 00:21:11.740 --> 00:21:13.900 align:middle line:84% can do an amazing job, but aren't 00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:17.230 align:middle line:84% able to just get past the social aspects of trying 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:22.120 align:middle line:84% to get into a neuromajority, neurotypical kind of work 00:21:22.120 --> 00:21:22.850 align:middle line:90% environment. 00:21:22.850 --> 00:21:28.060 align:middle line:84% So we found that the Microsoft interview program, which 00:21:28.060 --> 00:21:31.960 align:middle line:84% is similar to about 40 or 45 other programs that are also 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.150 align:middle line:84% part of this neurodiversity hiring initiative, 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:36.760 align:middle line:84% neurodiversity roundtable that you can find online 00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:41.973 align:middle line:84% if you search for that, that are specifically going after-- 00:21:41.973 --> 00:21:43.390 align:middle line:84% they do an interview program where 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:47.160 align:middle line:84% they assess technical skills, but they don't do it in a way 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:48.910 align:middle line:84% where you're just going up to a whiteboard 00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:50.560 align:middle line:84% and writing on the whiteboard with these trick 00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:51.580 align:middle line:90% lead code questions. 00:21:51.580 --> 00:21:54.370 align:middle line:84% What you do instead, you give somebody a task in the morning 00:21:54.370 --> 00:21:57.863 align:middle line:84% and you say, code me up an e-commerce website by tonight. 00:21:57.863 --> 00:22:00.280 align:middle line:84% They code on their computers just like they would normally 00:22:00.280 --> 00:22:01.210 align:middle line:90% do in real life. 00:22:01.210 --> 00:22:04.480 align:middle line:84% And then at the end of the day, they submit their assignment. 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.090 align:middle line:84% And that's a much better way to evaluate people if you 00:22:07.090 --> 00:22:08.830 align:middle line:90% give them that kind of time. 00:22:08.830 --> 00:22:12.400 align:middle line:84% They do some social assessment using Minecraft. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.560 align:middle line:84% Can you work together in a team to solve a task? 00:22:14.560 --> 00:22:17.250 align:middle line:84% When they do interviews, they don't just do, 00:22:17.250 --> 00:22:19.000 align:middle line:84% here's an interview with a hiring manager. 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.470 align:middle line:84% They do a practice interview first, 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:22.262 align:middle line:84% a mock interview with a real hiring manager 00:22:22.262 --> 00:22:25.360 align:middle line:84% but with a job coach that helps you understand 00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:27.280 align:middle line:84% how to talk about yourself in a way that 00:22:27.280 --> 00:22:28.730 align:middle line:90% is impressive to people. 00:22:28.730 --> 00:22:30.700 align:middle line:84% And when you have that mock interview, 00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.430 align:middle line:84% they give you feedback on, what could you do differently 00:22:33.430 --> 00:22:35.770 align:middle line:84% for the next day when you have the real job interview? 00:22:35.770 --> 00:22:37.802 align:middle line:84% And quite a number of people, over 300 people 00:22:37.802 --> 00:22:39.760 align:middle line:84% have been hired into this program for Microsoft 00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:41.350 align:middle line:84% over the past six or seven years, 00:22:41.350 --> 00:22:44.980 align:middle line:84% and it's spreading really far across the industry. 00:22:44.980 --> 00:22:47.200 align:middle line:84% And that's pretty amazing because now we can actually 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.440 align:middle line:84% have a way to get a lot of people who have been normally 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.770 align:middle line:84% cut or excluded from the software industry 00:22:53.770 --> 00:22:55.630 align:middle line:84% into the software industry, and hopefully 00:22:55.630 --> 00:22:58.160 align:middle line:90% be able to stay there. 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:02.140 align:middle line:84% So next step, I want to go to Kurt 00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:03.520 align:middle line:90% to talk about his experiences. 00:23:05.868 --> 00:23:06.660 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: Sorry. 00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:08.832 align:middle line:84% Just turning on the microphone there. 00:23:08.832 --> 00:23:09.460 align:middle line:90% Well, good. 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:11.370 align:middle line:90% Can you hear me? 00:23:11.370 --> 00:23:12.290 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Yep. 00:23:12.290 --> 00:23:12.957 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: OK. 00:23:12.957 --> 00:23:14.180 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Andy. 00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:19.700 align:middle line:84% As Andy mentioned, this notion of social skills and folks 00:23:19.700 --> 00:23:23.600 align:middle line:90% with autism comes up a lot. 00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:26.300 align:middle line:84% A lot of kids with autism will engage 00:23:26.300 --> 00:23:29.720 align:middle line:84% in social skills training at some point in their lives. 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.880 align:middle line:84% And the goal is to help them better navigate 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:34.920 align:middle line:84% a social world that's not really designed for them. 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:40.490 align:middle line:84% And so they might learn things that you and I might learn just 00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:44.390 align:middle line:84% by virtue of absorbing it from the world we live in. 00:23:44.390 --> 00:23:47.990 align:middle line:84% They might learn specifically in these social skills classes 00:23:47.990 --> 00:23:50.390 align:middle line:84% how to start a conversation, how to maintain 00:23:50.390 --> 00:23:55.205 align:middle line:84% the conversation, when to interrupt, not to interrupt, 00:23:55.205 --> 00:23:57.600 align:middle line:90% and stuff like that. 00:23:57.600 --> 00:24:00.770 align:middle line:84% The reason I'm involved in this kind of work 00:24:00.770 --> 00:24:03.870 align:middle line:84% now is that one of my daughters has autism. 00:24:03.870 --> 00:24:09.260 align:middle line:84% She is a freshman at UC Davis now, just starting out. 00:24:09.260 --> 00:24:15.140 align:middle line:84% And back a few years ago, I used to drive her 00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:17.780 align:middle line:84% to her weekly social skills classes run 00:24:17.780 --> 00:24:22.430 align:middle line:84% by a speech language pathologist named Jenny Soja. 00:24:22.430 --> 00:24:25.920 align:middle line:84% And one day I was chatting with Jenny and she said, 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.980 align:middle line:84% I wish there were computer classes for these kids. 00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:33.920 align:middle line:84% And I can't really say good luck with that, 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.610 align:middle line:84% because I'm a professor in computer science. 00:24:37.610 --> 00:24:42.510 align:middle line:90% So I said, we could do that. 00:24:42.510 --> 00:24:46.490 align:middle line:84% And so we created an eight-week class, one night a week 00:24:46.490 --> 00:24:48.680 align:middle line:90% for two hours per night. 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:51.680 align:middle line:84% This is mostly middle school and early high school students. 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.740 align:middle line:84% And we're teaching them social skills, 00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:59.960 align:middle line:84% or teaching them programming using the Scratch language, 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:05.180 align:middle line:84% but we would slide in the social skills training on the side. 00:25:05.180 --> 00:25:08.780 align:middle line:84% We started with cartoon fish swimming back and forth 00:25:08.780 --> 00:25:12.320 align:middle line:84% in a virtual aquarium and we worked our way up 00:25:12.320 --> 00:25:14.450 align:middle line:84% to building games like Fruit Invaders 00:25:14.450 --> 00:25:16.730 align:middle line:90% that you see on the screen now. 00:25:16.730 --> 00:25:21.170 align:middle line:84% And so I thought I was sort of signing up 00:25:21.170 --> 00:25:24.140 align:middle line:90% to teach computer programming. 00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:27.620 align:middle line:84% While I was doing that at the front of the classroom, 00:25:27.620 --> 00:25:30.980 align:middle line:84% Jenny was sort of sneaking around 00:25:30.980 --> 00:25:36.620 align:middle line:84% with the kids sort of low key and gently reminding them 00:25:36.620 --> 00:25:38.660 align:middle line:84% about the social skills training that they 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:40.250 align:middle line:84% had picked up in the classes that she 00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:41.630 align:middle line:90% had been running with them. 00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:45.377 align:middle line:84% So she would talk to them while I was teaching about, 00:25:45.377 --> 00:25:47.210 align:middle line:84% how do you show that you're paying attention 00:25:47.210 --> 00:25:48.110 align:middle line:90% to the instructor? 00:25:48.110 --> 00:25:50.360 align:middle line:90% And how do you work in pairs? 00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:54.650 align:middle line:84% How do you accept feedback from peers, and how do you give it? 00:25:54.650 --> 00:25:56.870 align:middle line:84% How to look at things from the perspective of others, 00:25:56.870 --> 00:26:00.035 align:middle line:84% and knowing how and when to ask for help. 00:26:00.035 --> 00:26:01.830 align:middle line:84% And so we did that for eight weeks. 00:26:01.830 --> 00:26:06.083 align:middle line:84% And at the end of it we had to ask the question, 00:26:06.083 --> 00:26:07.250 align:middle line:90% did we think it helped them? 00:26:07.250 --> 00:26:11.600 align:middle line:84% And my informal observation was, yes. 00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:16.820 align:middle line:84% But what really mattered was what Jenny, the SLP, said. 00:26:16.820 --> 00:26:18.320 align:middle line:84% From my perspective, the students 00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:22.070 align:middle line:84% were better at programming when it was all over. 00:26:22.070 --> 00:26:23.600 align:middle line:84% Jenny said that she thought there 00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:27.200 align:middle line:84% had been an increase in spontaneous greetings to peers 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:28.550 align:middle line:90% as they arrived for classes. 00:26:28.550 --> 00:26:31.070 align:middle line:84% When they originally arrived at these classes 00:26:31.070 --> 00:26:33.433 align:middle line:84% and they'd wait in the lobby for their class to start, 00:26:33.433 --> 00:26:34.850 align:middle line:84% they would not talk to each other. 00:26:34.850 --> 00:26:38.120 align:middle line:84% They would all focus on their phones and play games. 00:26:38.120 --> 00:26:42.570 align:middle line:84% But after a couple weeks of these programming classes, 00:26:42.570 --> 00:26:44.570 align:middle line:84% these students would actually talk to each other 00:26:44.570 --> 00:26:47.090 align:middle line:90% as they walked in the door. 00:26:47.090 --> 00:26:50.210 align:middle line:84% She thought that she observed an increased ability 00:26:50.210 --> 00:26:53.120 align:middle line:84% to look at the work of others and offer 00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:55.370 align:middle line:84% positive, constructive comments as well 00:26:55.370 --> 00:26:59.630 align:middle line:84% as an increased willingness to accept feedback from others. 00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:02.570 align:middle line:84% And she also said that the students 00:27:02.570 --> 00:27:05.660 align:middle line:84% were better at maintaining conversations with their peers 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:09.380 align:middle line:84% when it was all done, especially if those conversations were 00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:13.790 align:middle line:90% about programming and computers. 00:27:13.790 --> 00:27:18.920 align:middle line:84% I can't say for sure that the students were objectively 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:20.750 align:middle line:90% better in important ways. 00:27:20.750 --> 00:27:21.740 align:middle line:90% That's my impression. 00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:23.060 align:middle line:90% That was Jenny's impression. 00:27:23.060 --> 00:27:25.250 align:middle line:90% But we weren't collecting data. 00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:29.810 align:middle line:84% We didn't realize at the time that we were doing research. 00:27:29.810 --> 00:27:32.180 align:middle line:84% What we were doing was just trying to put together 00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:36.485 align:middle line:90% a class to help these students. 00:27:36.485 --> 00:27:41.840 align:middle line:84% And we thought, well, perhaps maybe we should try it again. 00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:45.080 align:middle line:84% We didn't know how to measure or what 00:27:45.080 --> 00:27:49.250 align:middle line:84% to measure in collecting data, but we did run a second class 00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:51.080 align:middle line:90% with most of the same students. 00:27:51.080 --> 00:27:52.880 align:middle line:90% We got some of the same results. 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.090 align:middle line:84% Not a whole lot of objective results still. 00:27:56.090 --> 00:28:00.860 align:middle line:84% But we ran it in Java instead of Scratch. 00:28:00.860 --> 00:28:02.810 align:middle line:84% This was something that the parents especially 00:28:02.810 --> 00:28:06.140 align:middle line:84% wanted to do because they knew, even though they weren't 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:07.912 align:middle line:84% necessarily computer people, they 00:28:07.912 --> 00:28:10.370 align:middle line:84% knew that Scratch wasn't a real programming language as far 00:28:10.370 --> 00:28:12.190 align:middle line:84% as they were concerned, and they wanted 00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:14.265 align:middle line:84% to use real programming languages because-- 00:28:14.265 --> 00:28:17.461 align:middle line:90% and Andy's shaking his head. 00:28:17.461 --> 00:28:19.550 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] 00:28:19.550 --> 00:28:21.700 align:middle line:84% They wanted them to-- they wanted their kids 00:28:21.700 --> 00:28:24.130 align:middle line:84% to learn how to program in Java so they could go out 00:28:24.130 --> 00:28:25.480 align:middle line:90% and get jobs. 00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:29.050 align:middle line:84% In any case, that was not a great success 00:28:29.050 --> 00:28:34.820 align:middle line:84% because the students didn't think that Java programming was 00:28:34.820 --> 00:28:36.710 align:middle line:84% nearly as exciting as Scratch programming, 00:28:36.710 --> 00:28:43.410 align:middle line:84% so we were able to not capture their attention as well. 00:28:43.410 --> 00:28:45.290 align:middle line:84% We've been doing a little bit of work. 00:28:45.290 --> 00:28:47.750 align:middle line:90% Since then, we got to-- 00:28:47.750 --> 00:28:50.360 align:middle line:84% COVID got in the way of a bunch of the things we wanted to do. 00:28:50.360 --> 00:28:52.910 align:middle line:84% We started to ramp up the effort again. 00:28:52.910 --> 00:28:57.560 align:middle line:84% We do have some work being done on a new curriculum that 00:28:57.560 --> 00:29:01.430 align:middle line:84% involves pair programming, or actually 00:29:01.430 --> 00:29:02.480 align:middle line:90% three-person programming. 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.580 align:middle line:84% I think Andy called it mob programming. 00:29:04.580 --> 00:29:07.970 align:middle line:84% And we're working on that, and we 00:29:07.970 --> 00:29:10.100 align:middle line:84% hope to have that out in the world 00:29:10.100 --> 00:29:14.360 align:middle line:84% sometime as soon as we can find a suitable class to run it in. 00:29:17.060 --> 00:29:18.925 align:middle line:84% So I think that leaves it to Adrienne. 00:29:24.193 --> 00:29:25.610 align:middle line:84% ADRIENNE DECKER: I'm going to wait 00:29:25.610 --> 00:29:27.260 align:middle line:90% for Andy to advance the slides. 00:29:27.260 --> 00:29:29.420 align:middle line:90% Yes, hi. 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:31.280 align:middle line:84% So as I said before, I'm Adrienne Decker. 00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:32.660 align:middle line:84% I am at the University of Buffalo 00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:34.490 align:middle line:84% in the Department of Engineering Education. 00:29:34.490 --> 00:29:39.320 align:middle line:84% And the project that I brought to this panel 00:29:39.320 --> 00:29:40.970 align:middle line:84% was a project that was brought to me 00:29:40.970 --> 00:29:43.430 align:middle line:84% by some colleagues in the Graduate School of Education 00:29:43.430 --> 00:29:48.110 align:middle line:84% who were very interested in trying to create faculty 00:29:48.110 --> 00:29:50.030 align:middle line:90% training for-- 00:29:50.030 --> 00:29:51.770 align:middle line:84% particularly computer science faculty 00:29:51.770 --> 00:29:54.650 align:middle line:84% to deal with neurodivergent students in their classroom, 00:29:54.650 --> 00:29:58.970 align:middle line:84% particularly focused on autism and ADHD students. 00:29:58.970 --> 00:30:00.710 align:middle line:84% They approached me because they knew 00:30:00.710 --> 00:30:03.150 align:middle line:84% that I did stuff with computing faculty and said, 00:30:03.150 --> 00:30:05.420 align:middle line:84% would you be able to help us understand 00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:08.180 align:middle line:84% how we can use our ideas for what we think 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:10.910 align:middle line:84% would be useful in this training and help sort of adapt it 00:30:10.910 --> 00:30:12.570 align:middle line:90% to computer science classrooms? 00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:16.320 align:middle line:84% And so I signed on for this project a bit ago. 00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:19.820 align:middle line:84% And we're in the process of designing this curriculum which 00:30:19.820 --> 00:30:23.270 align:middle line:84% is going to be an online course, a micro credential 00:30:23.270 --> 00:30:26.480 align:middle line:84% at first to give people some information 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.270 align:middle line:84% and to give faculty who are interested tips, 00:30:29.270 --> 00:30:32.360 align:middle line:84% techniques, and things to look for as they're 00:30:32.360 --> 00:30:36.520 align:middle line:84% trying to navigate a classroom that is neurodiverse. 00:30:36.520 --> 00:30:38.470 align:middle line:84% One of the things that really appealed 00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:42.220 align:middle line:84% to me about this project is that my colleagues 00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:48.880 align:middle line:84% were very committed to bringing in neurodivergent students 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:50.750 align:middle line:90% into the co-design process. 00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:53.260 align:middle line:84% So what we're about to launch into starting 00:30:53.260 --> 00:30:56.320 align:middle line:84% after the calendar year terms is really 00:30:56.320 --> 00:31:00.730 align:middle line:84% getting into the co-design teams and working with them to figure 00:31:00.730 --> 00:31:04.150 align:middle line:84% out, what should actually this training look like? 00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:06.790 align:middle line:84% What types of things should go into the training? 00:31:06.790 --> 00:31:09.280 align:middle line:84% We picked the co-design teams from a survey 00:31:09.280 --> 00:31:12.370 align:middle line:84% that was conducted last year where we sent out 00:31:12.370 --> 00:31:16.900 align:middle line:84% the survey to students who use the Accessibility 00:31:16.900 --> 00:31:19.630 align:middle line:84% Office at the university and asked them 00:31:19.630 --> 00:31:22.660 align:middle line:84% about their difficulties with dealing 00:31:22.660 --> 00:31:26.860 align:middle line:84% with neurodiversity issues in their classrooms. 00:31:26.860 --> 00:31:29.178 align:middle line:84% And so that-- I want to just really quickly, 00:31:29.178 --> 00:31:31.220 align:middle line:84% and then I'm going to turn it over to the bigger, 00:31:31.220 --> 00:31:32.620 align:middle line:90% broader Q&A-- 00:31:32.620 --> 00:31:35.320 align:middle line:84% is talk a little bit about the results of that survey. 00:31:35.320 --> 00:31:38.620 align:middle line:84% Because what was interesting to us is that out of that survey, 00:31:38.620 --> 00:31:42.790 align:middle line:84% we had 66 STEM students answer the survey, which we actually 00:31:42.790 --> 00:31:44.770 align:middle line:84% thought was a really high number of students, 00:31:44.770 --> 00:31:46.978 align:middle line:84% given that these students-- this was not for a class. 00:31:46.978 --> 00:31:48.700 align:middle line:90% This was not for a course. 00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:51.398 align:middle line:84% These are the students who are sort of just identified 00:31:51.398 --> 00:31:52.690 align:middle line:90% through accessibility services. 00:31:52.690 --> 00:31:55.390 align:middle line:84% And we just said, hey, would you be willing to take this survey 00:31:55.390 --> 00:31:57.040 align:middle line:90% for us-- you don't know us-- 00:31:57.040 --> 00:31:59.800 align:middle line:84% and tell us about your experiences? 00:31:59.800 --> 00:32:03.430 align:middle line:84% From those students, from those 66, 00:32:03.430 --> 00:32:06.658 align:middle line:84% 54 definitely identified themselves as neurodivergent. 00:32:06.658 --> 00:32:08.200 align:middle line:84% The accessibility service is not just 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:09.367 align:middle line:90% for neurodivergent students. 00:32:09.367 --> 00:32:11.350 align:middle line:84% It can be for any type of disability. 00:32:11.350 --> 00:32:16.720 align:middle line:84% And 34 of that 54 identified as being from a traditionally 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:19.428 align:middle line:90% underrepresented group in STEM. 00:32:19.428 --> 00:32:21.970 align:middle line:84% Looking at the things that they said and the things that they 00:32:21.970 --> 00:32:27.655 align:middle line:84% talked to us about, the students that self-identified as being 00:32:27.655 --> 00:32:30.280 align:middle line:84% from the groups that we consider traditionally underrepresented 00:32:30.280 --> 00:32:36.010 align:middle line:84% in STEM identified barriers at a statistically significantly 00:32:36.010 --> 00:32:37.300 align:middle line:90% more-- 00:32:37.300 --> 00:32:40.870 align:middle line:84% a greater rate than their neurodivergent peers 00:32:40.870 --> 00:32:42.400 align:middle line:84% that aren't considered traditionally 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:43.840 align:middle line:90% underrepresented in STEM. 00:32:43.840 --> 00:32:46.540 align:middle line:84% And the group that is traditionally underrepresented 00:32:46.540 --> 00:32:48.070 align:middle line:90% said that the biggest-- 00:32:48.070 --> 00:32:50.560 align:middle line:84% one of the biggest barriers that they faced 00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:52.720 align:middle line:84% is a barrier of peer and instructor 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.700 align:middle line:90% awareness of neurodiversity. 00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:56.260 align:middle line:84% They also pointed out lecture format, 00:32:56.260 --> 00:32:58.480 align:middle line:84% environmental distractions and other sensory issues, 00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.370 align:middle line:90% and time management. 00:32:59.370 --> 00:33:01.120 align:middle line:84% And these are many of the things that Omar 00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:04.150 align:middle line:84% had talked about in his video, but they came up in our survey 00:33:04.150 --> 00:33:04.910 align:middle line:90% as well. 00:33:04.910 --> 00:33:07.600 align:middle line:84% And I think like I said, what's interesting to us 00:33:07.600 --> 00:33:10.630 align:middle line:84% is an aspect that's coming into the training 00:33:10.630 --> 00:33:13.390 align:middle line:84% that we hadn't considered when the training started, 00:33:13.390 --> 00:33:17.195 align:middle line:84% is the fact that we're dealing with another form 00:33:17.195 --> 00:33:18.070 align:middle line:90% of intersectionality. 00:33:18.070 --> 00:33:19.487 align:middle line:84% Andy talks about intersectionality 00:33:19.487 --> 00:33:21.310 align:middle line:84% as that many people who are neurodivergent 00:33:21.310 --> 00:33:23.590 align:middle line:84% identify as multiple different-- with 00:33:23.590 --> 00:33:24.970 align:middle line:90% multiple different conditions. 00:33:24.970 --> 00:33:27.250 align:middle line:84% But the other piece of intersectionality 00:33:27.250 --> 00:33:30.250 align:middle line:84% that is coming up in our work is the fact that if you are-- 00:33:30.250 --> 00:33:33.250 align:middle line:84% the sort of more traditional intersectionality of identities 00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:35.470 align:middle line:84% is coming up for these students in a way 00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:38.470 align:middle line:84% that we didn't realize how significantly it 00:33:38.470 --> 00:33:39.520 align:middle line:90% would manifest. 00:33:39.520 --> 00:33:43.240 align:middle line:84% And so some of the comments that came from the surveys 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.160 align:middle line:84% are things that those students felt 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.080 align:middle line:84% that their instructors and their peers 00:33:47.080 --> 00:33:49.750 align:middle line:84% were essentially dismissive of their diagnosis, 00:33:49.750 --> 00:33:51.520 align:middle line:84% dismissive of their accommodations, 00:33:51.520 --> 00:33:54.550 align:middle line:84% and not willing to work with them in classrooms. 00:33:54.550 --> 00:33:56.290 align:middle line:84% And various other things too, but that's 00:33:56.290 --> 00:33:59.565 align:middle line:84% the one that sticks out to me as being one of the pieces. 00:33:59.565 --> 00:34:00.940 align:middle line:84% One of the questions that came in 00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:02.980 align:middle line:84% is, what can we do to help support these students 00:34:02.980 --> 00:34:03.730 align:middle line:90% in our classrooms? 00:34:03.730 --> 00:34:06.340 align:middle line:84% And I think one of the things that's coming out of our work, 00:34:06.340 --> 00:34:08.620 align:middle line:84% big, bold, and foremost is the idea 00:34:08.620 --> 00:34:10.449 align:middle line:84% that if a student comes to you and they 00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:13.179 align:middle line:84% say that they have a disability and they have accommodations, 00:34:13.179 --> 00:34:15.080 align:middle line:90% first of all, believe them. 00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:17.710 align:middle line:84% And second of all, gives them their accommodations. 00:34:17.710 --> 00:34:19.810 align:middle line:84% Don't question whether or not they actually 00:34:19.810 --> 00:34:20.980 align:middle line:90% need the accommodations. 00:34:20.980 --> 00:34:23.000 align:middle line:84% That's what they're coming to with. 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.000 align:middle line:84% But with that, I think I'm going to turn it over 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:31.653 align:middle line:84% to the broad Q&A piece and go from there. 00:34:31.653 --> 00:34:33.070 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: Thank you, Adrienne. 00:34:33.070 --> 00:34:37.179 align:middle line:84% I just want to-- we have a few slides of resources. 00:34:37.179 --> 00:34:40.565 align:middle line:84% What I'm going to do is just display these one per minute. 00:34:40.565 --> 00:34:42.190 align:middle line:84% And if you think that they're valuable, 00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:44.530 align:middle line:84% just take a screenshot of your Zoom window, 00:34:44.530 --> 00:34:48.280 align:middle line:84% and that's the easiest way to get them to you for now. 00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:51.070 align:middle line:84% Otherwise, after the talk Brianna 00:34:51.070 --> 00:34:53.050 align:middle line:84% might be able to find a way to share them out 00:34:53.050 --> 00:34:55.538 align:middle line:90% to the list of registrants. 00:34:55.538 --> 00:34:57.580 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Yeah, if you share them with me-- 00:34:57.580 --> 00:34:59.090 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: So I'll just-- so that is-- 00:34:59.090 --> 00:34:59.660 align:middle line:90% oh, I can do that? 00:34:59.660 --> 00:35:00.130 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: I'm sorry. 00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:01.630 align:middle line:84% Yeah, if you share them with me I'll 00:35:01.630 --> 00:35:03.290 align:middle line:84% email them to folks afterwards as well. 00:35:03.290 --> 00:35:04.957 align:middle line:84% And I'll try and drop things in the chat 00:35:04.957 --> 00:35:06.965 align:middle line:84% as it's showing up on the screen. 00:35:06.965 --> 00:35:08.090 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: That's great. 00:35:08.090 --> 00:35:08.300 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:09.967 align:middle line:84% Because there's been a number of papers, 00:35:09.967 --> 00:35:14.120 align:middle line:84% either academic articles, newspaper articles, 00:35:14.120 --> 00:35:15.590 align:middle line:90% resources from a lot of people. 00:35:15.590 --> 00:35:18.048 align:middle line:84% And actually, the links will probably be pretty useful too. 00:35:18.048 --> 00:35:20.970 align:middle line:84% So hopefully, if they're interesting. 00:35:20.970 --> 00:35:26.090 align:middle line:84% We've got some books which are really nice, books for-- 00:35:26.090 --> 00:35:29.090 align:middle line:84% especially around employment are pretty nice, 00:35:29.090 --> 00:35:31.010 align:middle line:90% books for some parents as well. 00:35:31.010 --> 00:35:33.920 align:middle line:84% History books, self-advocacy books from people who are 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:37.513 align:middle line:84% autistic or have identified as Asperger's. 00:35:37.513 --> 00:35:39.930 align:middle line:84% There's actually some fiction books which are pretty cool. 00:35:39.930 --> 00:35:41.820 align:middle line:90% I like those. 00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:45.710 align:middle line:84% And then finally, we have a lot of research literature 00:35:45.710 --> 00:35:50.000 align:middle line:84% around autism and involving them in sort of the software 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.340 align:middle line:84% industry and the tools that people 00:35:52.340 --> 00:35:55.340 align:middle line:90% use with autistic people. 00:35:55.340 --> 00:35:56.795 align:middle line:90% I'm going to do that sharing. 00:35:56.795 --> 00:36:01.070 align:middle line:90% So let's switch over to just-- 00:36:01.070 --> 00:36:03.770 align:middle line:84% stop sharing so you can see us and I can see us, 00:36:03.770 --> 00:36:06.770 align:middle line:84% and then we can answer any questions that you all have. 00:36:12.745 --> 00:36:15.120 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I know a lot of folks submitted questions 00:36:15.120 --> 00:36:16.203 align:middle line:90% when they registered. 00:36:16.203 --> 00:36:18.370 align:middle line:84% Do you guys want to take questions from the audience 00:36:18.370 --> 00:36:22.450 align:middle line:84% first, or do you want to address any of those questions? 00:36:22.450 --> 00:36:23.560 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Either way. 00:36:23.560 --> 00:36:26.260 align:middle line:84% If nobody in the audience is bold enough to ask a question, 00:36:26.260 --> 00:36:27.760 align:middle line:84% maybe can you pick one from the list 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.117 align:middle line:90% and we can try to tackle it. 00:36:30.117 --> 00:36:31.200 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Excellent. 00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:33.160 align:middle line:84% And if folks do want to ask questions, 00:36:33.160 --> 00:36:36.348 align:middle line:84% you can either raise your hand and talk 00:36:36.348 --> 00:36:37.890 align:middle line:84% or you can put something in the chat. 00:36:37.890 --> 00:36:40.500 align:middle line:90% Whatever works best for you all. 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.860 align:middle line:84% Now I'm looking for the questions. 00:36:49.505 --> 00:36:53.120 align:middle line:84% I'm looking at the questions folks submitted. 00:36:53.120 --> 00:36:56.150 align:middle line:84% What about, what advice would you give to faculty 00:36:56.150 --> 00:36:58.580 align:middle line:84% in a difficult classroom situation where they're 00:36:58.580 --> 00:37:01.220 align:middle line:84% dealing with a student that they either know or suspect 00:37:01.220 --> 00:37:02.420 align:middle line:90% is neurodivergent? 00:37:16.515 --> 00:37:17.640 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Wait, could-- 00:37:17.640 --> 00:37:19.460 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] wait. 00:37:19.460 --> 00:37:22.420 align:middle line:84% What was-- the question was, what would faculty do? 00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:24.670 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: What would you advise a faculty member 00:37:24.670 --> 00:37:27.340 align:middle line:84% to do if they've got a difficult situation going on 00:37:27.340 --> 00:37:29.170 align:middle line:84% in their classroom and they suspect 00:37:29.170 --> 00:37:31.030 align:middle line:84% it's because a student is neurodivergent 00:37:31.030 --> 00:37:33.637 align:middle line:84% or know that the student is neurodivergent? 00:37:33.637 --> 00:37:34.720 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: I don't know. 00:37:34.720 --> 00:37:39.250 align:middle line:84% Personally, my experience is that when that arises-- 00:37:39.250 --> 00:37:41.710 align:middle line:84% and it's happened a couple of times in my classrooms 00:37:41.710 --> 00:37:43.790 align:middle line:90% over the years-- 00:37:43.790 --> 00:37:46.210 align:middle line:84% I first reach out to whoever on campus 00:37:46.210 --> 00:37:52.360 align:middle line:84% is sort of coordinating services for students with disabilities 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.730 align:middle line:84% to find out what the situation is 00:37:54.730 --> 00:37:56.110 align:middle line:90% and how much they can reveal. 00:37:56.110 --> 00:37:58.060 align:middle line:84% And do they have any advice for that? 00:37:58.060 --> 00:38:02.320 align:middle line:84% And oftentimes what will happen then is that at UC Davis 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.440 align:middle line:84% it's called the Student Disability Center. 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:09.340 align:middle line:84% And they will reach out then to the student and say, hi. 00:38:09.340 --> 00:38:10.600 align:middle line:90% Are you doing OK? 00:38:10.600 --> 00:38:11.800 align:middle line:90% And how's things going? 00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:16.850 align:middle line:84% And can we help with anything in that regard? 00:38:16.850 --> 00:38:19.960 align:middle line:84% I don't know about a direct intervention. 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:24.153 align:middle line:84% I would be a little cautious to do something like that. 00:38:24.153 --> 00:38:26.070 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: I mean, the way we think of it-- 00:38:26.070 --> 00:38:28.167 align:middle line:84% and I haven't taught here at Carnegie Mellon yet, 00:38:28.167 --> 00:38:30.000 align:middle line:84% but I've taught at University of Washington. 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:33.870 align:middle line:84% But in work situations like at Microsoft, 00:38:33.870 --> 00:38:36.090 align:middle line:84% this happens a lot when you're the manager of a team 00:38:36.090 --> 00:38:38.190 align:middle line:84% and there's somebody on that team who 00:38:38.190 --> 00:38:42.280 align:middle line:84% is not acting like the other people on the team. 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.400 align:middle line:84% And when you start learning about neurodiversity, 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.740 align:middle line:84% you start noticing the particular attributes that 00:38:46.740 --> 00:38:49.540 align:middle line:84% might reveal that somebody is neurodivergent, especially 00:38:49.540 --> 00:38:50.790 align:middle line:90% if they haven't talked to you. 00:38:50.790 --> 00:38:53.220 align:middle line:90% And this is where I start-- 00:38:53.220 --> 00:38:56.130 align:middle line:84% I have a set of classes or online courses 00:38:56.130 --> 00:38:59.340 align:middle line:84% I teach about that are about inclusive management 00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:01.800 align:middle line:84% and things like, how do you communicate 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:04.930 align:middle line:84% with people who are different, who think differently than you? 00:39:04.930 --> 00:39:06.960 align:middle line:84% And what are the kinds of things that you 00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.850 align:middle line:84% can do to negotiate your management style 00:39:08.850 --> 00:39:11.430 align:middle line:84% or negotiate your teaching style with that student? 00:39:11.430 --> 00:39:13.140 align:middle line:84% I mean, the easiest thing to do is 00:39:13.140 --> 00:39:17.020 align:middle line:84% to ask questions of, what is the best way for you to receive 00:39:17.020 --> 00:39:17.520 align:middle line:90% information? 00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:19.530 align:middle line:84% What is the best way for you-- what way 00:39:19.530 --> 00:39:22.950 align:middle line:84% would you like me to transmit information for you? 00:39:22.950 --> 00:39:24.810 align:middle line:84% Whenever you say things in class, 00:39:24.810 --> 00:39:27.250 align:middle line:84% you might want to also follow up in writing because there 00:39:27.250 --> 00:39:29.250 align:middle line:84% are a lot of people who don't absorb information 00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:30.720 align:middle line:90% from verbal interactions. 00:39:30.720 --> 00:39:32.790 align:middle line:84% And they might spend all their effort just 00:39:32.790 --> 00:39:34.590 align:middle line:84% paying attention to you, and they 00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:36.000 align:middle line:84% can't take notes at the same time 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.040 align:middle line:84% because it's too cognitively demanding. 00:39:38.040 --> 00:39:41.180 align:middle line:84% And those are the kind of things that whenever 00:39:41.180 --> 00:39:42.930 align:middle line:84% we talked to people at Microsoft about any 00:39:42.930 --> 00:39:44.847 align:middle line:84% of the tricks we were doing, they're like, oh, 00:39:44.847 --> 00:39:46.020 align:middle line:90% that's just Management 101. 00:39:46.020 --> 00:39:47.430 align:middle line:90% That's how to be a good manager. 00:39:47.430 --> 00:39:50.770 align:middle line:84% And we're like, yeah, it is how to be a good manager. 00:39:50.770 --> 00:39:52.440 align:middle line:84% So I think teaching is a lot like that. 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.023 align:middle line:84% There's a lot of things that you could 00:39:54.023 --> 00:39:56.580 align:middle line:84% be doing that are just really, really straightforward, 00:39:56.580 --> 00:39:59.940 align:middle line:84% good practices that would work for all of your students. 00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:03.278 align:middle line:84% It's just the neurodivergent ones are going to perform-- 00:40:03.278 --> 00:40:05.820 align:middle line:84% they're going to have the worst trouble if you don't do them. 00:40:10.130 --> 00:40:11.880 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: There's a couple questions 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:17.670 align:middle line:84% too about how faculties can support neurodivergent students 00:40:17.670 --> 00:40:20.578 align:middle line:90% in group work. 00:40:20.578 --> 00:40:21.745 align:middle line:90% What would you advise there? 00:40:27.807 --> 00:40:29.640 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: I think that this is the thing 00:40:29.640 --> 00:40:32.010 align:middle line:84% that Kurt and I were experiencing with the coding 00:40:32.010 --> 00:40:32.580 align:middle line:90% camps. 00:40:32.580 --> 00:40:34.800 align:middle line:84% It's basically like, we're literally 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.360 align:middle line:84% having to teach students how to do group work. 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.510 align:middle line:84% And I mean, people aren't good at group work. 00:40:40.510 --> 00:40:43.020 align:middle line:84% I remember my group work back when I was in college, 00:40:43.020 --> 00:40:46.680 align:middle line:84% and our groups failed miserably because there were just 00:40:46.680 --> 00:40:50.020 align:middle line:84% very strong disagreements over how the group should organize 00:40:50.020 --> 00:40:50.520 align:middle line:90% itself. 00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:52.145 align:middle line:84% Who should be the manager of the group? 00:40:52.145 --> 00:40:55.860 align:middle line:84% Who should get credit for doing different parts of the project? 00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:59.060 align:middle line:84% And we didn't communicate well enough. 00:40:59.060 --> 00:41:00.810 align:middle line:84% And these are the skills that you actually 00:41:00.810 --> 00:41:03.630 align:middle line:84% should be teaching very explicitly to your students 00:41:03.630 --> 00:41:06.570 align:middle line:90% of how to have a group meeting. 00:41:06.570 --> 00:41:08.430 align:middle line:84% Don't just assume that they're going 00:41:08.430 --> 00:41:11.040 align:middle line:84% to figure it out if you throw four of them into a room. 00:41:11.040 --> 00:41:13.320 align:middle line:84% Actually teach them what to say in those meetings. 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.423 align:middle line:84% There's structure to this kind of thing. 00:41:16.423 --> 00:41:19.090 align:middle line:84% KURT EISELT: Yeah, again, it's a form of social skills training, 00:41:19.090 --> 00:41:19.750 align:middle line:90% right? 00:41:19.750 --> 00:41:22.390 align:middle line:84% And like Andy says, I mean, it's something 00:41:22.390 --> 00:41:26.240 align:middle line:84% that doesn't come naturally to our neurodivergent students, 00:41:26.240 --> 00:41:31.173 align:middle line:84% so we just have to coax them along as best we can. 00:41:31.173 --> 00:41:33.090 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: I don't think it comes naturally 00:41:33.090 --> 00:41:34.590 align:middle line:84% to the neurotypical students either. 00:41:34.590 --> 00:41:35.632 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: That's true. 00:41:35.632 --> 00:41:36.240 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:41:36.240 --> 00:41:38.320 align:middle line:84% Plenty of stories about that too. 00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:41.580 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I asked my daughter about that, that same question. 00:41:41.580 --> 00:41:46.690 align:middle line:84% And she said, well, from her perspective, 00:41:46.690 --> 00:41:49.770 align:middle line:84% she would like a certain amount of openness 00:41:49.770 --> 00:41:53.190 align:middle line:84% right up front, especially if you're in mixed groups 00:41:53.190 --> 00:41:57.760 align:middle line:84% if you have neurodivergent and neurotypical students. 00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:59.535 align:middle line:90% Let everybody know. 00:41:59.535 --> 00:42:00.300 align:middle line:90% Don't mask. 00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:01.380 align:middle line:90% Don't hide anything. 00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:06.002 align:middle line:84% Make sure that your professor knows that there 00:42:06.002 --> 00:42:06.960 align:middle line:90% are going to be issues. 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:08.960 align:middle line:84% There are neurodivergent students in that group, 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.340 align:middle line:84% and can we pay attention to that? 00:42:15.470 --> 00:42:17.470 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I mean, I love those suggestions 00:42:17.470 --> 00:42:18.640 align:middle line:84% because I think that's so in line 00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:20.290 align:middle line:84% with a lot of what we talk about about 00:42:20.290 --> 00:42:21.670 align:middle line:90% universal design of learning. 00:42:21.670 --> 00:42:23.387 align:middle line:84% And the suggestions that you give 00:42:23.387 --> 00:42:25.720 align:middle line:84% that may support some of your students with disabilities 00:42:25.720 --> 00:42:30.170 align:middle line:84% may support a wider range of folks. 00:42:30.170 --> 00:42:32.590 align:middle line:84% And as somebody with a lot of anxiety and an anxiety 00:42:32.590 --> 00:42:35.200 align:middle line:84% disorder, I always appreciate when folks [LAUGHS] 00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:37.450 align:middle line:84% give me that concrete information about how 00:42:37.450 --> 00:42:39.610 align:middle line:90% I should handle something. 00:42:39.610 --> 00:42:41.170 align:middle line:84% Diane asked if you have materials 00:42:41.170 --> 00:42:44.785 align:middle line:84% you can share for teaching group work skills. 00:42:47.087 --> 00:42:48.670 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: Yeah, I'm going to paste 00:42:48.670 --> 00:42:50.530 align:middle line:84% the link to the chat for our coding camp, 00:42:50.530 --> 00:42:52.810 align:middle line:84% and we have all of our scaffolding in there 00:42:52.810 --> 00:42:58.960 align:middle line:90% in the 2020 and 2021 folders. 00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.160 align:middle line:84% I have plans to build a lot more things. 00:43:02.160 --> 00:43:04.838 align:middle line:84% We haven't gotten through it all yet. 00:43:04.838 --> 00:43:06.880 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: There's a question in here, Kurt, 00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.780 align:middle line:84% that you might be good at answering 00:43:10.780 --> 00:43:13.360 align:middle line:84% about the level of involvement a parent should 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:18.600 align:middle line:84% have for their neurodivergent college students. 00:43:18.600 --> 00:43:19.620 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: Yeah. 00:43:19.620 --> 00:43:21.620 align:middle line:84% We do have a lot of experience with that lately. 00:43:21.620 --> 00:43:26.470 align:middle line:84% And I asked my daughter what she thought about that. 00:43:26.470 --> 00:43:32.970 align:middle line:84% And she said she would be really happy to have her parents, 00:43:32.970 --> 00:43:37.110 align:middle line:84% one or more, directly involved in the classroom and that sort 00:43:37.110 --> 00:43:41.040 align:middle line:84% of thing, but she recognizes the need for her 00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:43.660 align:middle line:84% to be able to advocate for herself. 00:43:43.660 --> 00:43:47.730 align:middle line:84% And so when she steps back and thinks about it purely 00:43:47.730 --> 00:43:54.370 align:middle line:84% objectively, she realizes that's not going to be a good idea. 00:43:54.370 --> 00:43:59.250 align:middle line:84% So we tend to stay out of the way as much as we can. 00:43:59.250 --> 00:44:01.950 align:middle line:84% That's not entirely possible because when 00:44:01.950 --> 00:44:07.200 align:middle line:84% you're working with folks like counselors at the Student 00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:10.650 align:middle line:84% Disability Center or their professors or things like that, 00:44:10.650 --> 00:44:15.720 align:middle line:84% sometimes if your child doesn't know how to advocate yet 00:44:15.720 --> 00:44:18.108 align:middle line:84% for herself, you do have to sort of step in 00:44:18.108 --> 00:44:19.650 align:middle line:84% and do a little hand-holding and make 00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:21.780 align:middle line:90% sure the message gets sent. 00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:26.610 align:middle line:84% But for the most part, we try to stay out of the way. 00:44:26.610 --> 00:44:31.035 align:middle line:84% It would be possible I think in some cases, 00:44:31.035 --> 00:44:32.910 align:middle line:84% although I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, 00:44:32.910 --> 00:44:39.940 align:middle line:84% that a parent could be approved as an aide in the classroom. 00:44:39.940 --> 00:44:43.440 align:middle line:84% But I think that might be an awkward situation there too. 00:44:49.943 --> 00:44:52.110 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Andrew or Adrienne, do either of you 00:44:52.110 --> 00:44:53.297 align:middle line:90% want to add to that? 00:44:53.297 --> 00:44:54.880 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: Yeah, I just want to add 00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:56.050 align:middle line:90% one thing, which is funny. 00:44:56.050 --> 00:44:59.740 align:middle line:84% At Microsoft in this neurodiversity hire program, 00:44:59.740 --> 00:45:02.890 align:middle line:84% there were times when they hired somebody who was autistic 00:45:02.890 --> 00:45:07.262 align:middle line:84% and their parents would call the manager of that person. 00:45:07.262 --> 00:45:09.220 align:middle line:84% I mean, this is a person who's, like, 25 or 30. 00:45:09.220 --> 00:45:10.928 align:middle line:84% And their parents would call and be like, 00:45:10.928 --> 00:45:13.120 align:middle line:90% how's my son or daughter doing? 00:45:13.120 --> 00:45:16.010 align:middle line:84% And the managers were like, who is this person, 00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:18.610 align:middle line:90% and why are they talking to me? 00:45:18.610 --> 00:45:21.040 align:middle line:84% It's something that you expect to have for a student, 00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:23.680 align:middle line:84% but not so much for somebody who has a job. 00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:27.310 align:middle line:84% And actually, throughout the entire-- 00:45:27.310 --> 00:45:29.500 align:middle line:84% even all the way through HR they're like, 00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:31.023 align:middle line:90% how do we engage with family? 00:45:31.023 --> 00:45:32.440 align:middle line:84% How do you engage with parents who 00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:35.260 align:middle line:84% are concerned about how well their kids are doing? 00:45:35.260 --> 00:45:38.530 align:middle line:84% And often, I think it's a challenge for parents 00:45:38.530 --> 00:45:40.990 align:middle line:84% to let go, to learn to let go like Kurt was talking 00:45:40.990 --> 00:45:44.890 align:middle line:84% about a little bit, of you've been spending 00:45:44.890 --> 00:45:48.760 align:middle line:84% 18 years of your kid's life kind of scaffolding literally 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:51.340 align:middle line:84% everything for them and prepping their IEPs 00:45:51.340 --> 00:45:53.350 align:middle line:84% and helping them get through school 00:45:53.350 --> 00:45:54.970 align:middle line:84% and remind them of their homework 00:45:54.970 --> 00:45:56.905 align:middle line:84% and getting them to school on time and stuff. 00:45:56.905 --> 00:45:58.780 align:middle line:84% And then all of the sudden they go to college 00:45:58.780 --> 00:46:00.530 align:middle line:84% and then they get a job, and they're gone. 00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:02.830 align:middle line:84% And I mean, hopefully that happens to your kids, 00:46:02.830 --> 00:46:04.810 align:middle line:84% and that's what you want for them. 00:46:04.810 --> 00:46:09.190 align:middle line:84% But then it's hard to let go and to stop being so involved 00:46:09.190 --> 00:46:13.340 align:middle line:84% and let them succeed on their own. 00:46:13.340 --> 00:46:15.590 align:middle line:84% ADRIENNE DECKER: I think that's not necessarily just 00:46:15.590 --> 00:46:17.223 align:middle line:90% with neurodivergent children. 00:46:17.223 --> 00:46:18.140 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: [LAUGHS] 00:46:18.140 --> 00:46:21.300 align:middle line:84% ADRIENNE DECKER: We see it with neurotypical children too. 00:46:21.300 --> 00:46:22.850 align:middle line:84% But I think one of the pieces that 00:46:22.850 --> 00:46:26.420 align:middle line:84% struck me is that sometimes even the neurotypical children need 00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:29.450 align:middle line:84% the guidance for, how do you talk to a professor? 00:46:29.450 --> 00:46:33.923 align:middle line:84% How do you talk to some office on campus that you don't-- you 00:46:33.923 --> 00:46:36.090 align:middle line:84% need information from and all of that kind of stuff? 00:46:36.090 --> 00:46:37.860 align:middle line:84% So I think the support needs to be there, 00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:39.277 align:middle line:84% but I agree with the idea that you 00:46:39.277 --> 00:46:41.990 align:middle line:84% have to-- it is scaffolding that needs to go away at some point. 00:46:45.694 --> 00:46:48.290 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: Just needs to go away slowly. 00:46:48.290 --> 00:46:51.090 align:middle line:84% That's one of the challenges when the kids go to college. 00:46:51.090 --> 00:46:52.952 align:middle line:84% All of the sudden the IEP turns off 00:46:52.952 --> 00:46:54.660 align:middle line:84% and they have to advocate for themselves. 00:46:54.660 --> 00:46:56.868 align:middle line:84% They have to decide to go to the Office of Disability 00:46:56.868 --> 00:46:58.130 align:middle line:90% Services for themselves. 00:46:58.130 --> 00:47:00.500 align:middle line:84% Like, you can't-- the parent can't do it. 00:47:00.500 --> 00:47:01.790 align:middle line:90% They have to do it themselves. 00:47:01.790 --> 00:47:05.900 align:middle line:84% And a lot of kids who have ADHD or autism 00:47:05.900 --> 00:47:07.590 align:middle line:90% think, well, I got into college. 00:47:07.590 --> 00:47:08.897 align:middle line:90% I can do this for myself. 00:47:08.897 --> 00:47:09.980 align:middle line:90% And it turns out that, no. 00:47:09.980 --> 00:47:11.688 align:middle line:84% They would really benefit from some help, 00:47:11.688 --> 00:47:13.980 align:middle line:84% but they just don't want to reach out, 00:47:13.980 --> 00:47:17.557 align:middle line:84% and I think sometimes it's too late. 00:47:17.557 --> 00:47:20.140 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I've definitely heard from disability services 00:47:20.140 --> 00:47:22.600 align:middle line:84% offices and those conversations with parents 00:47:22.600 --> 00:47:26.250 align:middle line:84% too in navigating how to make that 00:47:26.250 --> 00:47:27.690 align:middle line:90% a conversation with the student. 00:47:30.600 --> 00:47:33.660 align:middle line:84% So there's a couple questions too about resources or articles 00:47:33.660 --> 00:47:36.180 align:middle line:84% or guides you would give to students or assistive 00:47:36.180 --> 00:47:41.010 align:middle line:84% technology that you might recommend for students 00:47:41.010 --> 00:47:44.940 align:middle line:90% who are neurodivergent. 00:47:44.940 --> 00:47:47.310 align:middle line:84% KURT EISELT: I asked my daughter about that, 00:47:47.310 --> 00:47:51.160 align:middle line:84% and she gave me a reading list [LAUGHS] 00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:55.380 align:middle line:84% which I'd be happy to share about five books 00:47:55.380 --> 00:48:01.080 align:middle line:84% that she felt have impacted her life positively. 00:48:01.080 --> 00:48:03.480 align:middle line:84% One was called The Power of Neurodiversity: 00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:07.560 align:middle line:84% Unleashing the Advantages of Your Differently Wired Brain 00:48:07.560 --> 00:48:08.880 align:middle line:90% by Thomas Armstrong. 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:12.990 align:middle line:84% And another book called Life, Animated by Ron Suskind. 00:48:12.990 --> 00:48:16.680 align:middle line:84% And Thinking in Pictures by Temple Grandin. 00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:19.710 align:middle line:84% And another book called Uniquely Human: 00:48:19.710 --> 00:48:23.070 align:middle line:84% A Different Way of Seeing Autism by Barry Prizant. 00:48:23.070 --> 00:48:25.590 align:middle line:84% And finally, a book that a lot of us 00:48:25.590 --> 00:48:30.240 align:middle line:84% are familiar with from other avenues, Mindset 00:48:30.240 --> 00:48:31.035 align:middle line:90% by Carol Dweck. 00:48:34.730 --> 00:48:37.940 align:middle line:84% So those are big five, her top five recommendations. 00:48:43.727 --> 00:48:46.310 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: Actually, there's a lot of time management apps. 00:48:46.310 --> 00:48:50.270 align:middle line:84% I don't have any offhand that I could say out loud, 00:48:50.270 --> 00:48:53.540 align:middle line:84% but I use a cal-- so I have ADHD, 00:48:53.540 --> 00:48:58.010 align:middle line:84% and I have 50,000 things I would like to do at any given moment. 00:48:58.010 --> 00:49:00.450 align:middle line:84% And usually, I can handle three or four at a time. 00:49:00.450 --> 00:49:03.890 align:middle line:84% But if I run out of space in my brain, 00:49:03.890 --> 00:49:05.490 align:middle line:90% I put them onto Post-it notes. 00:49:05.490 --> 00:49:07.490 align:middle line:84% And when I run out of space on the Post-it notes 00:49:07.490 --> 00:49:08.840 align:middle line:84% or it turns out that time matters, 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:09.980 align:middle line:90% I put them on the calendar. 00:49:09.980 --> 00:49:12.710 align:middle line:84% And I now have given my life over to the calendar. 00:49:12.710 --> 00:49:15.860 align:middle line:84% If the calendar says I have to be somewhere, I show up. 00:49:15.860 --> 00:49:19.080 align:middle line:84% If it's not on the calendar, I have no idea it's happening. 00:49:19.080 --> 00:49:22.280 align:middle line:84% And I make sure that everybody else knows it. 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:24.450 align:middle line:84% And they're like, if you want to meet with me, 00:49:24.450 --> 00:49:25.700 align:middle line:90% it has to be on my calendar. 00:49:25.700 --> 00:49:27.800 align:middle line:84% You can't just say it to me out loud. 00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:31.070 align:middle line:84% Or if I'm in a meeting and there's a lot of details 00:49:31.070 --> 00:49:33.215 align:middle line:84% that I'm supposed to remember, you better 00:49:33.215 --> 00:49:35.090 align:middle line:84% make sure I'm taking notes because I will not 00:49:35.090 --> 00:49:36.590 align:middle line:90% remember any of those details. 00:49:36.590 --> 00:49:40.373 align:middle line:84% So these are not just tools that you use for yourself, 00:49:40.373 --> 00:49:42.290 align:middle line:84% but these are things that you should normalize 00:49:42.290 --> 00:49:44.400 align:middle line:84% with your relationships, with your friends, 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.120 align:middle line:84% with your teachers to say, this is 00:49:47.120 --> 00:49:49.790 align:middle line:84% how you can help me to be a much better partner, a much 00:49:49.790 --> 00:49:52.610 align:middle line:84% better relationship-- a much better group member, 00:49:52.610 --> 00:49:55.597 align:middle line:84% a much better student is help me to do these things, 00:49:55.597 --> 00:49:57.180 align:middle line:84% and I will perform for you, and I will 00:49:57.180 --> 00:49:58.772 align:middle line:90% do fantastic work with you. 00:49:58.772 --> 00:50:00.230 align:middle line:84% But these are just some of the ways 00:50:00.230 --> 00:50:02.612 align:middle line:84% that my brain works, and let's accommodate 00:50:02.612 --> 00:50:03.695 align:middle line:90% all of the different ways. 00:50:06.950 --> 00:50:09.200 align:middle line:84% KURT EISELT: My daughter also recommended another tool 00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:12.380 align:middle line:84% that she relies on heavily that you may have heard of. 00:50:12.380 --> 00:50:15.000 align:middle line:90% It's Otter.ai. 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.860 align:middle line:84% A speech to text processor and app. 00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:23.210 align:middle line:84% And it's not perfect, but it works really well. 00:50:23.210 --> 00:50:27.590 align:middle line:84% And she runs it on her iPad in every classroom 00:50:27.590 --> 00:50:31.130 align:middle line:84% and essentially gets everything that the professor is 00:50:31.130 --> 00:50:35.630 align:middle line:84% saying in text so that she can go back and look at it later. 00:50:38.227 --> 00:50:39.310 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Excellent. 00:50:39.310 --> 00:50:39.810 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:50:39.810 --> 00:50:41.655 align:middle line:84% I will say I have learned to turn 00:50:41.655 --> 00:50:43.030 align:middle line:84% on the captions for every meeting 00:50:43.030 --> 00:50:45.980 align:middle line:84% I'm in because if I miss a word, I look at them. 00:50:45.980 --> 00:50:48.970 align:middle line:84% I think that's a great example of universal design. 00:50:48.970 --> 00:50:51.550 align:middle line:84% And I love that Zoom is now enabling participants 00:50:51.550 --> 00:50:55.580 align:middle line:84% to turn them on without asking the host to turn them on. 00:50:55.580 --> 00:50:59.470 align:middle line:84% So that gives greater access to folks who want to use those. 00:50:59.470 --> 00:51:04.028 align:middle line:84% I am copying resources as I can from the chat, 00:51:04.028 --> 00:51:05.445 align:middle line:84% and I will share those afterwards. 00:51:05.445 --> 00:51:07.655 align:middle line:84% And Kurt, if you send that list of books to me too, 00:51:07.655 --> 00:51:09.280 align:middle line:84% I will share that afterwards with folks 00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:10.280 align:middle line:90% who are here as well. 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:11.405 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: I can do that. 00:51:15.100 --> 00:51:18.550 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I'm looking back at the questions. 00:51:18.550 --> 00:51:21.220 align:middle line:84% If anybody has any questions, again, as a reminder, 00:51:21.220 --> 00:51:22.220 align:middle line:90% you can unmute yourself. 00:51:22.220 --> 00:51:23.428 align:middle line:90% You can ask them in the chat. 00:51:26.645 --> 00:51:28.020 align:middle line:84% There's a couple questions about, 00:51:28.020 --> 00:51:31.320 align:middle line:84% how do we get groups of neurodivergent students talking 00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:37.910 align:middle line:84% to one another or help them find places of support on campus? 00:51:37.910 --> 00:51:40.720 align:middle line:84% And I see Chris has his hand up, so I'll get to you, Chris, 00:51:40.720 --> 00:51:41.762 align:middle line:90% after we respond to that. 00:51:45.902 --> 00:51:47.360 align:middle line:84% Maybe part of it too is, how do you 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:49.940 align:middle line:84% know what resources there are for neurodivergent students 00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:50.795 align:middle line:90% on your campus? 00:51:54.410 --> 00:51:55.790 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:51:55.790 --> 00:51:57.180 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Go ahead. 00:51:57.180 --> 00:52:01.410 align:middle line:84% KURT EISELT: It's not been a big problem for us, so anyway, 00:52:01.410 --> 00:52:03.042 align:middle line:90% go ahead. 00:52:03.042 --> 00:52:04.500 align:middle line:84% ADRIENNE DECKER: I was going to say 00:52:04.500 --> 00:52:08.070 align:middle line:84% that whatever the Accessibility Services Office is called 00:52:08.070 --> 00:52:10.710 align:middle line:84% on your campus, that would be the first place 00:52:10.710 --> 00:52:13.590 align:middle line:84% to start because they might organize things 00:52:13.590 --> 00:52:16.210 align:middle line:90% or they might know things. 00:52:16.210 --> 00:52:19.390 align:middle line:84% But then if there are student groups that exist, 00:52:19.390 --> 00:52:21.640 align:middle line:84% it's probably through the Student Union or the Student 00:52:21.640 --> 00:52:23.940 align:middle line:84% Association, or however the student groups 00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:27.090 align:middle line:84% get organized that would identify as being 00:52:27.090 --> 00:52:29.130 align:middle line:90% groups for people like this. 00:52:29.130 --> 00:52:30.630 align:middle line:84% I don't know if there are very many. 00:52:30.630 --> 00:52:32.400 align:middle line:84% I don't think we have a group like that 00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.760 align:middle line:84% that's organized by the Student Association, for example, here. 00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.010 align:middle line:84% But I don't know what the accessibility services would 00:52:38.010 --> 00:52:42.150 align:middle line:84% have and what they sort of know about that's going on. 00:52:42.150 --> 00:52:46.047 align:middle line:84% But that to me would be a place to start looking. 00:52:46.047 --> 00:52:47.880 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: We have a neurodiversity group 00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:50.890 align:middle line:84% on Carnegie Mellon's campus, one for employees 00:52:50.890 --> 00:52:52.770 align:middle line:90% and then one for students. 00:52:52.770 --> 00:52:57.690 align:middle line:84% And they're both led by respective people as well. 00:52:57.690 --> 00:53:00.270 align:middle line:84% And that is a place to go outside 00:53:00.270 --> 00:53:05.310 align:middle line:84% of any sort of administration-run group 00:53:05.310 --> 00:53:09.010 align:middle line:84% that allows the students to help one another, 00:53:09.010 --> 00:53:12.980 align:middle line:90% and that's pretty helpful. 00:53:12.980 --> 00:53:15.560 align:middle line:84% But yeah, it's going to be somewhere on their campus. 00:53:15.560 --> 00:53:16.060 align:middle line:90% Google. 00:53:16.060 --> 00:53:18.040 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I also put a link in the chat 00:53:18.040 --> 00:53:20.907 align:middle line:84% to AccessComputing's Team program. 00:53:20.907 --> 00:53:22.990 align:middle line:84% Students with disabilities from across the country 00:53:22.990 --> 00:53:24.940 align:middle line:84% can connect with us for mentoring and career 00:53:24.940 --> 00:53:25.647 align:middle line:90% development. 00:53:25.647 --> 00:53:27.730 align:middle line:84% I didn't ask that question to plug my own program, 00:53:27.730 --> 00:53:29.980 align:middle line:84% but [LAUGHS] as you were talking I 00:53:29.980 --> 00:53:32.650 align:middle line:84% realized I should include that as well. 00:53:32.650 --> 00:53:34.456 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: I know there's a Reddit group 00:53:34.456 --> 00:53:38.342 align:middle line:84% for-- there's a Reddit group for neurodiversity as well-- 00:53:38.342 --> 00:53:39.550 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Oh, I'm sure. 00:53:39.550 --> 00:53:44.655 align:middle line:84% --which would be a place to get help from other people outside 00:53:44.655 --> 00:53:45.570 align:middle line:90% of your school. 00:53:45.570 --> 00:53:46.752 align:middle line:90% Go ahead, Chris. 00:53:46.752 --> 00:53:47.460 align:middle line:90% AUDIENCE: Thanks. 00:53:47.460 --> 00:53:48.390 align:middle line:90% Thanks for this panel. 00:53:48.390 --> 00:53:49.390 align:middle line:90% My name's Chris Murphy. 00:53:49.390 --> 00:53:52.800 align:middle line:84% I'm a faculty member in computer science at Bryn Mawr College. 00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.740 align:middle line:84% I'm particularly interested in the experiences 00:53:55.740 --> 00:53:58.770 align:middle line:84% in supporting students who live with mental health conditions 00:53:58.770 --> 00:54:01.580 align:middle line:84% like anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, and so on. 00:54:01.580 --> 00:54:03.360 align:middle line:84% And I think a lot of the strategies 00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.160 align:middle line:84% for supporting these students are 00:54:05.160 --> 00:54:07.380 align:middle line:90% the same in terms of being-- 00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:10.020 align:middle line:84% obviously, you have to adhere to accommodations, 00:54:10.020 --> 00:54:13.500 align:middle line:84% but being flexible, being empathetic, giving students 00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:15.360 align:middle line:90% options, and so on. 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:17.940 align:middle line:84% And to go back to something Adrienne said about faculty 00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:20.760 align:middle line:84% being dismissive of neurodivergent students' needs, 00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:23.130 align:middle line:84% I find that when I try to advocate 00:54:23.130 --> 00:54:26.160 align:middle line:84% for these approaches to teaching, 00:54:26.160 --> 00:54:30.300 align:middle line:84% the pushback I get from colleagues or reviewers 00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:34.080 align:middle line:84% succeed, frankly, and other venues 00:54:34.080 --> 00:54:37.770 align:middle line:84% are things like, well, there's no evidence that these 00:54:37.770 --> 00:54:40.440 align:middle line:84% are increasing the students' learning 00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:42.990 align:middle line:84% or increasing retention or anything like that. 00:54:42.990 --> 00:54:47.130 align:middle line:84% Or faculty say, I don't want to reduce rigor-- 00:54:47.130 --> 00:54:51.780 align:middle line:84% rolls eyes-- just to support these particular students. 00:54:51.780 --> 00:54:53.400 align:middle line:84% Or it makes it too much work for me 00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:56.340 align:middle line:84% as the professor or the instructor 00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:57.820 align:middle line:90% to give students options. 00:54:57.820 --> 00:55:01.920 align:middle line:84% And so what are the arrows in the quiver 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:03.930 align:middle line:84% that I can go into these conversations 00:55:03.930 --> 00:55:07.920 align:middle line:84% with to be like, how do I convince somebody beyond this 00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:09.120 align:middle line:90% is-- you're a teacher. 00:55:09.120 --> 00:55:10.620 align:middle line:84% You should care about your students. 00:55:10.620 --> 00:55:11.703 align:middle line:90% That only gets you so far. 00:55:19.083 --> 00:55:21.500 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: Adrienne, I feel like this is something that 00:55:21.500 --> 00:55:21.890 align:middle line:90% you're-- 00:55:21.890 --> 00:55:22.550 align:middle line:90% ADRIENNE DECKER: Thanks. 00:55:22.550 --> 00:55:23.000 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:24.260 align:middle line:84% I knew that was where it was headed. 00:55:24.260 --> 00:55:25.310 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: --working on, right? 00:55:25.310 --> 00:55:27.020 align:middle line:84% ADRIENNE DECKER: Well, I don't know if we're working on it. 00:55:27.020 --> 00:55:28.687 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think that's one of the things 00:55:28.687 --> 00:55:31.160 align:middle line:84% that we've identified as being a barrier, 00:55:31.160 --> 00:55:35.720 align:middle line:84% is that, why are we doing this to support our students? 00:55:35.720 --> 00:55:37.730 align:middle line:84% Because, well, we should be humans 00:55:37.730 --> 00:55:39.980 align:middle line:84% and support the other humans that are in the room 00:55:39.980 --> 00:55:43.490 align:middle line:84% and do what we can to make sure that their lives are just 00:55:43.490 --> 00:55:45.600 align:middle line:90% as good as-- 00:55:45.600 --> 00:55:47.750 align:middle line:84% that's why we should do it, right? 00:55:47.750 --> 00:55:53.330 align:middle line:84% For no other purpose is that this is the right thing to do. 00:55:53.330 --> 00:55:53.840 align:middle line:90% I agree. 00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:56.810 align:middle line:84% I mean, we know that things like universal design for learning 00:55:56.810 --> 00:55:58.520 align:middle line:84% and various other learning supports 00:55:58.520 --> 00:56:01.082 align:middle line:84% that we can give to students will help all students, 00:56:01.082 --> 00:56:02.540 align:middle line:84% no matter if they're neurodivergent 00:56:02.540 --> 00:56:04.340 align:middle line:90% or if they're not, right? 00:56:04.340 --> 00:56:06.380 align:middle line:84% So we know that that is the case. 00:56:06.380 --> 00:56:09.290 align:middle line:84% The faculty workload thing is an issue. 00:56:09.290 --> 00:56:10.790 align:middle line:84% It's something that we're struggling 00:56:10.790 --> 00:56:12.623 align:middle line:84% with when we're thinking about this training 00:56:12.623 --> 00:56:16.410 align:middle line:84% is that we need to give the low-barrier support things, 00:56:16.410 --> 00:56:16.910 align:middle line:90% right? 00:56:16.910 --> 00:56:18.470 align:middle line:84% We can't turn around and tell faculty 00:56:18.470 --> 00:56:21.335 align:middle line:84% that they have to redesign all of their courses 00:56:21.335 --> 00:56:23.960 align:middle line:84% and totally redo everything in the next three weeks 00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:24.660 align:middle line:90% to do this. 00:56:24.660 --> 00:56:27.530 align:middle line:84% We need to be able to provide tips and tricks and things 00:56:27.530 --> 00:56:29.030 align:middle line:84% that they can do that are actually 00:56:29.030 --> 00:56:32.030 align:middle line:90% pretty low-barrier changes. 00:56:32.030 --> 00:56:35.000 align:middle line:84% And there are many that faculty can do. 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:40.340 align:middle line:84% And then as you become more entrenched in these ideas, then 00:56:40.340 --> 00:56:43.460 align:middle line:84% how do you take bigger chunks and change bigger things? 00:56:43.460 --> 00:56:44.630 align:middle line:90% But I think that's-- 00:56:44.630 --> 00:56:47.030 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't have an answer, unfortunately, 00:56:47.030 --> 00:56:50.540 align:middle line:84% for, how do you sort of persuade someone who feels like this 00:56:50.540 --> 00:56:53.120 align:middle line:84% isn't their problem and this isn't their responsibility 00:56:53.120 --> 00:56:54.290 align:middle line:90% and this isn't-- 00:56:54.290 --> 00:56:57.330 align:middle line:84% and unfortunately, that is the fight to fight. 00:56:57.330 --> 00:56:59.330 align:middle line:84% And my advice to people with all of these things 00:56:59.330 --> 00:57:01.070 align:middle line:84% is, well, find someone who does think 00:57:01.070 --> 00:57:03.810 align:middle line:84% that it's their responsibility and start with them. 00:57:03.810 --> 00:57:06.410 align:middle line:84% Work with them, get it better for one classroom, 00:57:06.410 --> 00:57:07.910 align:middle line:90% and then maybe-- 00:57:07.910 --> 00:57:10.160 align:middle line:84% the idea if you have enough people who then, oh, well, 00:57:10.160 --> 00:57:11.360 align:middle line:84% that-- oh, look at what they're doing. 00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:11.900 align:middle line:90% They're interesting. 00:57:11.900 --> 00:57:13.567 align:middle line:84% Maybe I can do a little bit of that too. 00:57:13.567 --> 00:57:15.060 align:middle line:90% Maybe it'll snowball. 00:57:15.060 --> 00:57:15.560 align:middle line:90% Right? 00:57:20.475 --> 00:57:22.100 align:middle line:84% AUDIENCE: I know it's a tough question. 00:57:22.100 --> 00:57:22.520 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:57:22.520 --> 00:57:23.353 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Adrienne. 00:57:23.353 --> 00:57:25.360 align:middle line:90% Appreciate it. 00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:29.440 align:middle line:84% ANDREW BEGEL: There's the HCI heuristic evaluation 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:32.470 align:middle line:84% methodology called GenderMag from Margaret Burnett at Oregon 00:57:32.470 --> 00:57:33.520 align:middle line:90% State University. 00:57:33.520 --> 00:57:36.860 align:middle line:84% And I've been working on a research project 00:57:36.860 --> 00:57:40.320 align:middle line:84% this year about developing that into a neuro-inclusive-- a 00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:43.153 align:middle line:84% neurodiversity mag where basically, GenderMag 00:57:43.153 --> 00:57:45.070 align:middle line:84% looks at the differences between men and women 00:57:45.070 --> 00:57:47.260 align:middle line:84% and how they interact with user interfaces. 00:57:47.260 --> 00:57:49.090 align:middle line:84% And if you're trying to design software, 00:57:49.090 --> 00:57:52.480 align:middle line:84% you want to understand differences in behavior 00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:56.440 align:middle line:84% for people to be able to interact with your UIs. 00:57:56.440 --> 00:58:01.000 align:middle line:84% And so the same thing is true for neurodivergent people. 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:03.405 align:middle line:84% They interact with computers in very different ways. 00:58:03.405 --> 00:58:05.530 align:middle line:84% They interact with learning in very different ways. 00:58:05.530 --> 00:58:07.570 align:middle line:84% And what this gives you is the ability 00:58:07.570 --> 00:58:10.485 align:middle line:84% to create user personas or student personas that 00:58:10.485 --> 00:58:12.610 align:middle line:84% would enable you to look at a particular assignment 00:58:12.610 --> 00:58:17.980 align:middle line:84% or a particular lecture or classroom instructional tactic 00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:21.280 align:middle line:84% that you're using and see, how would the person who's autistic 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:22.210 align:middle line:90% engage with this? 00:58:22.210 --> 00:58:24.610 align:middle line:84% Or what would the challenges be that get in the way? 00:58:24.610 --> 00:58:26.988 align:middle line:84% And then lead a discussion with that faculty member 00:58:26.988 --> 00:58:28.780 align:middle line:84% to say, what are the different ways that we 00:58:28.780 --> 00:58:30.880 align:middle line:84% can engage with them and try to address some 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:32.980 align:middle line:84% of those particular issues with small changes 00:58:32.980 --> 00:58:33.880 align:middle line:90% to what you're doing? 00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:35.440 align:middle line:84% Now of course, like Adrienne said, 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:37.690 align:middle line:84% you're not going to solve all the problems in one day. 00:58:37.690 --> 00:58:39.190 align:middle line:90% That's totally normal. 00:58:39.190 --> 00:58:42.190 align:middle line:84% But you can solve a few problems and start 00:58:42.190 --> 00:58:44.980 align:middle line:84% making life a little bit better for faculty. 00:58:44.980 --> 00:58:47.845 align:middle line:90% And that would be kind of nice. 00:58:47.845 --> 00:58:50.470 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I think that is a great place to end for today. 00:58:50.470 --> 00:58:51.970 align:middle line:90% I want to respect folks' time. 00:58:51.970 --> 00:58:53.740 align:middle line:84% And join me in thanking our panelists 00:58:53.740 --> 00:58:56.290 align:middle line:84% for coming today and sharing their expertise. 00:58:56.290 --> 00:58:59.110 align:middle line:84% And I'll follow up with an evaluation and some 00:58:59.110 --> 00:59:01.867 align:middle line:84% of the resources we talked about today. 00:59:01.867 --> 00:59:02.700 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Great. 00:59:02.700 --> 00:59:03.290 align:middle line:90% Thanks so much. 00:59:03.290 --> 00:59:03.680 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Thanks. 00:59:03.680 --> 00:59:04.810 align:middle line:84% ADRIENNE DECKER: Thank you for having us. 00:59:04.810 --> 00:59:05.275 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:59:05.275 --> 00:59:05.983 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: Bye. 00:59:05.983 --> 00:59:07.400 align:middle line:90% ANDREW BEGEL: Bye. 00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:08.950 align:middle line:90% KURT EISELT: Bye.